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Thread: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    And besides, it's an easy fix.

    Just require that females in the military take a pregnancy test each month, or something, and then you always know which of your female personnel are going to be available for deployment.

    This would be much less of an issue if someone gets that artificial womb invented…

    The Mark <-- Reads too many sci-fi books.
    Im all for the NORPLANT mandatory for anyone within 6 months of a deployment window.

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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by blackdog
    You cannot compare race to sex in this case.

    Do you have anything else irrelevant to add?
    You're mixing your arguments, and have been doing so for quite some time.

    The 'whites vs blacks' argument was originally made a point of in order to contradict the claim that 'women working with men would have a bad effect on the men' - because an equal claim was made about black integration and everyone got over it fairly fast. The same, I suspect, will go for repealing DADT. A competent soldier will quickly be recognised as a competent soldier, whether they are black/white, straight/gay, or male/female.

    That 'men are stronger than women' has nothing to do with integration. It's an entirely seperate point - one which is seperately rendered invalid by the fact that, although this is the case, some women would undoubtably be physically fit enough to work competantly on a sub.

    Your only remaining argument, from what I can see, is that there is a risk that standards will be lowered in order that more women get accepted. Personally, I think that's unlikely - but there's no way of proving it, either way. You'll just have to wait and see.
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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Fact: Males have greater upper body strength than females.
    Fact: The majority of black men and white men have the same upper body strength.
    Fact: Males have a different mindset than females. Men and women are wired differently.
    Fact: The majority of men are wired the same way as are females.

    You cannot compare race to sex in this case.

    Do you have anything else irrelevant to add?
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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    Your only remaining argument, from what I can see, is that there is a risk that standards will be lowered in order that more women get accepted. Personally, I think that's unlikely - but there's no way of proving it, either way. You'll just have to wait and see.
    Just so everyone is aware, I am 99.9999% sure that male and female physical standards are ALREADY different - as in, the female ones are lower - in all branches of the military.

    As to combat/non-combat standards, I couldn't say.
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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Just so everyone is aware, I am 99.9999% sure that male and female physical standards are ALREADY different - as in, the female ones are lower - in all branches of the military.

    As to combat/non-combat standards, I couldn't say.
    And it should be changed to one standard.

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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    And it should be changed to one standard.
    Don't hold your breath.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Can anyone present any evidence that the direct benefits to allowing women to serve on subs will outweigh the direct costs?

    So far, I've seen posts primarily comprised of "but but but some girls have big muscles too!" and "it's so nice when we all get along and have one fair standard." Hardly convincing. When it comes to the military, I'm less concerned about being fair and more concerned about maximizing a unit's efficacy.

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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    And it should be changed to one standard.
    I agree, with conditions.

    I think we can all agree that a large percentage of females will not be able to match any given male, given the same general physical conditioning start point, training time, motivation and opportunities.

    But females can serve in many positions that do not require high physical conditioning, or which require high physical conditioning to a lesser extent.

    Some could, but not most.

    Thus, if the basic “one size fits all” standard prevents too many females with above average female physical condition, or allows too many males with sub-standard male physical condition….

    So I would think a “job-based” standard system would be more reasonable.

    I assume such is the case already, in most cases.

    However, perhaps entrance-wise it would be reasonable as well.

    Trainee T1 performs to X standard in the physical department, so Trainee T1 is eligible for positions requiring physical conditioning levels of X standard.

    Trainee T2 performs to X-2 standard in the physical department, so Trainee T2 is eligible for positions requiring physical conditioning levels of X-2 standard.

    Now, I have no idea if this is already the case (I assume it is, however, in some fashion).

    But…

    You get the idea.
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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    So I would think a “job-based” standard system would be more reasonable.
    That makes the most sense to me.
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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I agree, with conditions.

    I think we can all agree that a large percentage of females will not be able to match any given male, given the same general physical conditioning start point, training time, motivation and opportunities.

    But females can serve in many positions that do not require high physical conditioning, or which require high physical conditioning to a lesser extent.

    Some could, but not most.

    Thus, if the basic “one size fits all” standard prevents too many females with above average female physical condition, or allows too many males with sub-standard male physical condition….

    So I would think a “job-based” standard system would be more reasonable.

    I assume such is the case already, in most cases.

    However, perhaps entrance-wise it would be reasonable as well.

    Trainee T1 performs to X standard in the physical department, so Trainee T1 is eligible for positions requiring physical conditioning levels of X standard.

    Trainee T2 performs to X-2 standard in the physical department, so Trainee T2 is eligible for positions requiring physical conditioning levels of X-2 standard.

    Now, I have no idea if this is already the case (I assume it is, however, in some fashion).

    But…

    You get the idea.
    That would be a great idea. I think the only place it is used is in special forces...

    Navy Seals
    Rangers

    Etc...

    Otherwise it is for now one size fits all, and that just does not work.

    I don't think it will ever be changed either.
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