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Schwarzenegger hammers fellow Republicans over stimulus hypocrisy

Actually underfunded education and highway systems are a sign that we're undertaxed.

We don't have an underfunded education system.

I won't even mention the fact that the US Constitution does not allow the federal government to fund public education.

Highway programs are "underfunded" solely because the politicians steal the gasoline taxes to pay for their bull**** projects instead.
 
That's it right there, folks. I could take Reps going on these photo ops if they'd just admit that the ARRA has done some good things in their state in some small measure, but that's really not what Reps are saying about it. Their game plan is to continue denouncing the bill as a waste of taxpayer money instead of speaking up about anything good that has come out of the pet projects the ARRA clearly helped to complete or save. That's where I get so tic'd off at about the Reps on this issue.

The bill is a waste of taxpayer money, or more precisely, Chinese money, that we have to pay back someday. The cost for jobs "created" or (ahem) "saved" is exorbitant and more people would benefit if the unemployed were simply given bigger checks.

The country doesn't need more government employees, the country needs a growing economy. And that's achieved by across the board tax cuts.

Deficits are failures to rein in spending, not evidence of insufficient taxation.
 
A few facts to keep in mind here.

#1. Arnold is a RINO not a real republican, and most certainly no Conservative.

#2. Arnold is an Obama apologist and has been from the beginning, the idiot even fell for the Global Warming HOAX.

#3. Of the $787 billion appropriated only 1/3 of it has been spent and much of it used to pay off special interests and to promote Socialism which Obama loves.

#4. Pork is a and has been a fact of Washington life and one mans pork is another mans constituents benefits.

#5. Arnold is most likely going to go directly from Sacramento to the Obama Administration.

I wish Gray Davis had been smarter because it would have made it possible for the people of California not to look like fools for electing Arnold.

It would be better if everyone were to be consistent and I think everyone agrees hypocrisy is problem but it's a toss up whether Arnold's variety is the same or worse than others.

You know, Arnold got elected because the Republican party supported him. There were SEVERAL Conservative candidates to pick from, and at least 2 of them could have beaten Davis handily, as unpopular he was. But Republicans picked Arnold. Then, after election day, Republicans crowed about a Republican winning the governorship of California. Now they bash Arnold, and call him a RINO. RINO, compared to what? To all those Republicans who supported him? Yea, right.

Republicans - Here is the deal. You made your bed by supporting Arnold. You do not have the right to bash him, since you strongly supported him, and the only reason you supported him was because he decided to have an "R" next to his name. Did you look at his ideology? NO. Did you look at what he supported? NO. Did you look at the "R" after his name. Absolutely. It is the ONLY thing you looked at, and you kicked LEGITIMATE Conservative candidates to the curb in the process. But keep whining, and choose not to accept responsibility for what you supported. But it is all YOUR fault that Arnold is where he is, and it is all YOUR fault for what he is doing. Cry me a river. I don't buy it.

NOTE: This post is not directed at Councilman, nor any other specific person, but is directed at the Republican party in General. They made their bed with Arnold. Now they will have to lie in it.
 
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The bill is a waste of taxpayer money, or more precisely, Chinese money, that we have to pay back someday. The cost for jobs "created" or (ahem) "saved" is exorbitant and more people would benefit if the unemployed were simply given bigger checks.

The country doesn't need more government employees, the country needs a growing economy. And that's achieved by across the board tax cuts.

Deficits are failures to rein in spending, not evidence of insufficient taxation.

First off, unemployment compensation is governed by the individual states, not the government.

Second, if you truly understood our economic situation one year ago when the ARRA was passed, you and others who oppose it wouldn't be making such statements. I agree that the ARRA was mostly directed at state and federal government entities, but since most every state was suffering financially and corporate American couldn't fix itself, it made sense to funnel monies to state and federal gov't projects in an effort to atleast spur the economy. The hope, of course, was to limit unemployment and spur job growth. That didn't quite work out as planned, but I think in the long term w/funding going to some of the infrustructure projects I identify below, job growth will come in time and people will be thankful the ARRA was passed.

Third, the idea of the ARRA wasn't to cut taxes but to help states either start or complete infrustructure projects, i.e., road, bridge, air port (re)construction, high-speed rail initiatives, foster tourism, improve urban and rural housing development, etc., etc. Most people (and politicians) who oppose the ARRA focus on the first 4 items and forget about the rest because they don't create this aura of sensationalism or give the appearance of "wasteful spending". Granted, some of that (wasteful spending) has taken place, but as we can all attest to from recent local and national media reports on ribbon cutting ceremonies, some communities have benefited from funding from the ARRA that obviously helped state and local governments and/or private businesses complete projects or start or reopen businesses. So, the ARRA hasn't been the wasted effort many people would like to label it.

Finally, to the deficit, Pres. Obama tried to form a panel that would review government spending, but was shot down mostly by members from the very political party that talks big about financial oversight. Thus, he had to go it alone. I'm sure he'll be heavily criticised for it, but sometimes you gotta do whatcha gotta go even in the face of opposition.
 
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We don't have an underfunded education system.

I won't even mention the fact that the US Constitution does not allow the federal government to fund public education.

Highway programs are "underfunded" solely because the politicians steal the gasoline taxes to pay for their bull**** projects instead.

.... so explain to me how public education does not fit "general welfare."
 
.... so explain to me how public education does not fit "general welfare."
Why don't you tell us what doesn't fit into General Welfare, I'm sure you list would be much shorter.
 
Why don't you tell us what doesn't fit into General Welfare, I'm sure you list would be much shorter.

No, how about you explain to me why you think poor people shouldn't be educated.
 
No, how about you explain to me why you think poor people shouldn't be educated.

Whether poor people should be educated (or whether any other policy should exist) is entirely irrelevant to the question of how the general welfare clause should be interpreted.
 
He can't correctly answer my question.
 
At least with tax and spend [wealthy people] assume the responsibility for the spending [politicians] do [while receiving a disproportionately small amount of the benefits when compared to the rest of Americans].

Fixed it for you...
 
.... so explain to me how public education does not fit "general welfare."

Why does the Constitution even bother to enumerate certain authorities if the General Welfare Clause was meant to be an open-ended power-granting clause?

Why do we have an Amendment process?

What's the purpose of the Tenth Amendment?

If "public education" is part of the "general welfare", why even bother mentioning that the Congress has the authority to operate a post office, wouldn't that just be part of the "general welfare"?
 
I understand that tax & spend is better than borrow & spend.

Anyone who argues otherwise should not be allowed to handle their own finances.

But your argument, as typically used by others in past debates, always fails to address the desire to control spending, aka limits on programs.

But that's a failure of Congress rather then anything else. Besides, Congress has shown, independent of who is in power that it will spend period. If it has to leverage the childrens' piggy banks it will do so. I'd rather pay meet a dollar of expenditure with a dollar of revenue rather then saddle the generation with debt we were too cowardly to handle ourselves. The issue here is Congress more then anything else. We voted the bastards in Congress in who spent like sailors. We should take care of the mess they made. Not force our children and grandchildren to pay for a debt we lacked the responsibility to take care of.

So as not to misconstrue your opinions any further, can you tell me which you prefer between a choice of growing federal government programs (and raising taxation appropriately), and limiting and/or cutting federal reach?
Or, in an ideal world where there are no deficits, do you prefer tax rate hikes, or tax rate cuts for the tax paying public?

Some programs need to be expanded, largely the ones that foster scientific research. The sheer number of medicines that were originally produced by the NIH is staggering. Not to mention the applied materials that NASA developed. Some programs need to be axed, like the funding for arts. Not the government's job. And Federal reach does need to be limited. The GOP in my mind lost all credibility when they voted to allow the Federal government into the Schavio case.

In an ideal world, there shouldn't be debt financed deficits. What good government would do would be to accumulate surpluses which would be tapped for deficit spending. Thus, we'd get the benefit of a stimulus without the corresponding debt. The key problem I see is Congress using that money as it did Social Security, but that's another thread.

Taxes don't need to go up if proper cuts can be made.

Still, none of that matters until Congress changes its attitude about spending. That's the first and foremost problem here.
 
Fixed it for you...

That's not necessarily true. Historical tax rates of tax and spend hit the middle class relatively heavily. Furthermore, states tend to jack up sales taxes which are regressive. Tax and spend at most levels of government is pretty harsh on everyone. But that's better then having to tax, spend and cut services to the bone in the future to barely make debt servicing payments.
 
Tax and spend isn't bad.

Tax $1, Spend $4. That's bad.

How's the rest of the nation feeling about paying more taxes to bail out California? This is the natural culmination of the Left's failed experiment with socialism. All you non-California lefties, start paying more taxes for the Left Coast.

Uh, get your facts correct. California has been subsidizing other states for decades. California gets less in Federal then it sends out. Furthermore, California's revenue issue stems from its reliance upon capital gains tax. Basically, California was spending tax money derived from stock sales of silicon valley. Granted, I have no sympathy for the state that should have seen the gravy train ending far before any other state, but blaming "socialism" which you have no understanding of without getting the other side of the equation is highly ignorant.

Remember that when California was awash in capital gains revenue, it was also spending huge amounts on welfare without problems. Blaming just welfare is one part of the issue. California never should have considered the capital gain tax gravy train as a railroad with infinite cars.
 
Anyone who argues otherwise should not be allowed to handle their own finances.



But that's a failure of Congress rather then anything else. Besides, Congress has shown, independent of who is in power that it will spend period. If it has to leverage the childrens' piggy banks it will do so. I'd rather pay meet a dollar of expenditure with a dollar of revenue rather then saddle the generation with debt we were too cowardly to handle ourselves. The issue here is Congress more then anything else. We voted the bastards in Congress in who spent like sailors. We should take care of the mess they made. Not force our children and grandchildren to pay for a debt we lacked the responsibility to take care of.



Some programs need to be expanded, largely the ones that foster scientific research. The sheer number of medicines that were originally produced by the NIH is staggering. Not to mention the applied materials that NASA developed. Some programs need to be axed, like the funding for arts. Not the government's job. And Federal reach does need to be limited. The GOP in my mind lost all credibility when they voted to allow the Federal government into the Schavio case.

In an ideal world, there shouldn't be debt financed deficits. What good government would do would be to accumulate surpluses which would be tapped for deficit spending. Thus, we'd get the benefit of a stimulus without the corresponding debt. The key problem I see is Congress using that money as it did Social Security, but that's another thread.

Taxes don't need to go up if proper cuts can be made.

Still, none of that matters until Congress changes its attitude about spending. That's the first and foremost problem here.

Then you appear to say Congress cannot be controlled so we have to deal with it by continually increasing taxation to keep up with them?

Re. "but that's another thread"; That is the problem. That thread seldom materializes, and when it does it doesn't get many posts.
 
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