Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 31

Thread: Dutch to pull troops out of Aghanistan following government collapse

  1. #21
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:44 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: Dutch to pull troops out of Aghanistan following government collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You think it's reasonable to expect any occupying force to be able to turn a war-torn and dirt poor country with no infrastructure into a self-governing democracy in "a couple of years"? When has that ever happened?
    Did I say creating a democracy?

    I said creating an Afghan army, something different entirely dont you think.


    The Taliban can turn an Afghan into an effective fighter in a short period of time from the looks of it, why can not NATO turn Afghani's into an effective army in 7 years?

  2. #22
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:44 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: Dutch to pull troops out of Aghanistan following government collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    And how would you know? What kind of experience do you have in the training of foreign militaries?
    Do you

    If you do in a war zone that would mean Vietnam (another wonderful success)

    Think about this, how long does it take to create a soldier

    a few weeks
    a few months
    a few years
    or a few decades.

    Something is being done incompetently in Afghanistan and has been done so since 2002, if the Afghani army is still unable to fight the Taliban. Please recall the Northern Alliance, a group of warlords with assistance from US special forces were able to route the Taliban in many areas at the start of the Afghani invasion. Yet today, the Afghani army needs to be backed by a large formation of US forces. Does something not seem wrong, does the quality seem to be backsliding

  3. #23
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Dutch to pull troops out of Aghanistan following government collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Did I say creating a democracy?

    I said creating an Afghan army, something different entirely dont you think.


    The Taliban can turn an Afghan into an effective fighter in a short period of time from the looks of it, why can not NATO turn Afghani's into an effective army in 7 years?
    If we're not going to institute democratic reforms or ensure that the country is no longer a haven for terrorists, then why did we bother going in in the first place? If the only standard we're using is whether they had an Afghan army, then they were a success before we even got there.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #24
    Outer space potato man

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    51,849

    Re: Dutch to pull troops out of Aghanistan following government collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    To be honest, they really don't need a reason beyond not wanting to be there any more.
    This. They don't want to fight a war anymore. Who are we to demand that they do so?


    Also, notice how the OP still hasn't explained his Obama comment. I am utterly baffled that anyone could come up with such a statement related to this news.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  5. #25
    Human 2.0
    Maximus Zeebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Europe
    Last Seen
    09-07-17 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,568

    Re: Dutch to pull troops out of Aghanistan following government collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    That's precisely it. Europeans only have a stomach for war when it involves conquering their neighbors...
    Temporarily suspended finally? Perhaps you should quit these absurd statements then...
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  6. #26
    Human 2.0
    Maximus Zeebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Europe
    Last Seen
    09-07-17 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,568

    Re: Dutch to pull troops out of Aghanistan following government collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Do you

    If you do in a war zone that would mean Vietnam (another wonderful success)
    Vietnam is more of a communist state now than it was before. Just like Afghanistan will be more of a terrorist ****hole after the US leave than before. Afganistan is a war that cannot be won.
    Even if the US stayed a whole generation they would be unable to indoctrinate these people with a new mindset. Perhaps 2 or 3 generations COULD do it.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  7. #27
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:44 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: Dutch to pull troops out of Aghanistan following government collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    If we're not going to institute democratic reforms or ensure that the country is no longer a haven for terrorists, then why did we bother going in in the first place? If the only standard we're using is whether they had an Afghan army, then they were a success before we even got there.
    Creating a democracy was not what I was questioning

    Creating a democracy that is stable and effective is going to take a long time

    Creating an effective army should not take 7 years, or 20 years.

  8. #28
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Dutch to pull troops out of Aghanistan following government collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Creating a democracy was not what I was questioning

    Creating a democracy that is stable and effective is going to take a long time

    Creating an effective army should not take 7 years, or 20 years.
    So given that you're the expert on this, why don't you tell us how long it should have taken? Can you explain what the coalition troops did wrong, and how they should have done things differently?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  9. #29
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:44 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: Dutch to pull troops out of Aghanistan following government collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So given that you're the expert on this, why don't you tell us how long it should have taken? Can you explain what the coalition troops did wrong, and how they should have done things differently?
    Gee lets see

    Canada was able to field an effective army a large one mind you within a few short months during WW1. Far over 90% of the people Canada sent to war in WW1 would have been drafted specifically for that war and having no military experience before that.

    So for Afghanistan, if it took more the 2 years after the fall of the Taliban then something would be drastically wrong dont you think. Given that so far after 7 years the Afghani Army can not be fielded on its own to take on the Taliba would or at least should indicate that training has been horribly ineffective or insufficient

    As for what that could be.

    I understand they have subcontracte training to groups like XE corp, paying for the recruit, with little regard for quality of the recruit apon finishing training. So XE corp will care little if the recruit stays for any lenght of time. Also and more importantly, it appears that motivation of the Afghani army is severly lacking. To me that means that most recruits dont feel they are fighting for Afghanistan, but the foreigner militaries in Afghanistan. Drop out rates would be far less then they are if they felt they were fighting for Afghanistan rather then the US military.

    Which means, it should be Afghanis training the Afghani army (the Taliban seem to do a reasonable job training, I cant see why other Afghanis couldnt. Lastly ensure that any and all paychecks are signed sealed and delivered by Afghanis to the Afghani soldiers

  10. #30
    Student Commoncents's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Quincy MA
    Last Seen
    08-26-10 @ 06:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    185

    Re: Dutch to pull troops out of Aghanistan following government collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Creating a democracy was not what I was questioning

    Creating a democracy that is stable and effective is going to take a long time

    Creating an effective army should not take 7 years, or 20 years.
    In Afghanistan its going to take this much time. Afghanis are a nations of clans and tribes. They do not even trust each other. Id wager the recruits/soldiers see a NATO force in a better light than that of an opposing Afghan tribe as far leadership and training.Same holds true for the locals these recruits must interact with as they become more experienced.

    Effective is the key word here. A bunch of illiterate know nothings with guns and helmets do not an effective army make. Add to the fact the EU countries supposedly contributing to the war are mostly doing so in token fashion and you get what you have now,an ever more US dominated effort. Is it any wonder the IA/IP has become effective while ANA languishes in limbo? Not really.

    The dutch..let them go.
    Someone told me once that there's a right and wrong,
    and that punishment would come to those who dare to cross the line. - TooL

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •