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Texas man flies plane into IRS building

Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

Deuce said:
^^^When the suspect was brown and muslim conservatives couldn't jump on the terrorism angle fast enough.
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What exactly was this post referencing?
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

Zyphlin said:
What exactly was this post referencing?
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....every criminal act committed by muslims in the last year?

Another thought is that Fox News might go with the "OBAMA FAILED TO PREVENT THIS TERRORIST ACT" angle.

Is there a live stream of coverage on their website? All I get is a traffic camera pointing at the crash site.

edit: Ok there's a guy there now but no audio....
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

Deuce said:
....every criminal act committed by muslims in the last year?
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Ah, so ignorant stereotyping of all conservatives essentially doing the very thing you're bitching about them doing.

Well done. That takes talent.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

Deuce said:
....every criminal act committed by muslims in the last year?

Another thought is that Fox News might go with the "OBAMA FAILED TO PREVENT THIS TERRORIST ACT" angle.

Is there a live stream of coverage on their website? All I get is a traffic camera pointing at the crash site.
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I don't see how it would ever be possible to prevent an act like this without locking society down so much that we would have to have a signed waiver from the authorities to go to the bathroom.

People snapping and going crazy will always happen, we should focus on what we can prevent and that is organized efforts at terrorism.

The term for this was "going postal" and I guess the new term is "terrorism"
 
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Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

The pilot's name was Joseph Andrew Stack.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

Deuce said:
....every criminal act committed by muslims in the last year?

Another thought is that Fox News might go with the "OBAMA FAILED TO PREVENT THIS TERRORIST ACT" angle.

Is there a live stream of coverage on their website? All I get is a traffic camera pointing at the crash site.

edit: Ok there's a guy there now but no audio....
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OK, that makes sense. Just like "911 was an inside job, committed by the Bush administration", right? :mrgreen:
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

danarhea said:
OK, that makes sense. Just like "911 was an inside job, committed by the Bush administration", right? :mrgreen:
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Wouldn't be the first time. They tried to blame him for Ft. Hood... (which wasn't even terrorism by the way because uniformed soldiers are legitimate targets of war but that's not relevant)

You bring up an alternative possibility: "The CIA did it to kill an IRS agent who was auditing one of their fronts."
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

There's things that liberals have complained that conservatives have wrongfully blamed Obama for that I feel is completely legitimate.

In this case it'd be a shame for any conservative to try and blame Obama, especially before any facts came out, for something like this. That said, I'm not going to start scolding people for doing something that's purely theoritical stated by a guy who just grossly stereotyped all conservatives.

If someone actually does try to do it then conservatives should call their own on the absurdity of it. But so far that's not happened.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

bhkad said:
The pilot's name was Joseph Andrew Stack.
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Again, if he DID burn house, and hop in his plane and crash it... it was a spectacular suicide, and since it hit an IRS building... that makes this a lone gunman style domestic terrorist attack.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

bhkad said:
Fox News reports the NTSB says the pilot set his own house ablaze then piloted the plane into the office building which also houses the IRS office.
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So, he's PO'd at the IRS.



I sympathize.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

Deuce said:
Wouldn't be the first time. They tried to blame him for Ft. Hood... (which wasn't even terrorism by the way because uniformed soldiers are legitimate targets of war but that's not relevant)

You bring up an alternative possibility: "The CIA did it to kill an IRS agent who was auditing one of their fronts."
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Links please, on conservatives blaming Obama for the Ft. Hood Terrorist attack.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

Zyphlin said:
There's things that liberals have complained that conservatives have wrongfully blamed Obama for that I feel is completely legitimate.

In this case it'd be a shame for any conservative to try and blame Obama, especially before any facts came out, for something like this. That said, I'm not going to start scolding people for doing something that's purely theoritical stated by a guy who just grossly stereotyped all conservatives.

If someone actually does try to do it then conservatives should call their own on the absurdity of it. But so far that's not happened.
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Sorry if you felt insulted, I didn't meant to say that ALL conservatives do this ALL the time.

But it's often enough to be noticeable.

My money is on "going postal" for this particular scenario. Someone is going to bring up tea parties though. Olberman or Maddow?

edit: Comedy option: Rush.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

MrVicchio said:
Again, if he DID burn house, and hop in his plane and crash it... it was a spectacular suicide, and since it hit an IRS building... that makes this a lone gunman style domestic terrorist attack.
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No it doesn't.

Sometimes people are just crazy.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

Deuce said:
No it doesn't.

Sometimes people are just crazy.
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It's also a form of terrorism. Just as if this nutjob (should all that's coming out pan out to be the facts) walked in with a rifle and started shooting the place up.

Welcome to reality.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

He sounds like he was in a similar mental state as a Mid East terrorist. He was suicidal and at the end of his rope, with a clearly identifiable enemy, the IRS. He was probably about to lose his house too, so he burned it to keep the bank from getting anything out of it, since the banks, too, were in the enemy camp.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

I would hesitate to call this (or the fort hood shootings) terrorism because, as far as I can tell, there was no greater political agenda designed to get the general population to stop or start doing something or change policy.

I think in both cases, some unbalanced person got pissed off and decided to take matters in his own hands. Using this criteria, I don't believe the Dr. Tiller murder was terrorism either, again, it was just a crazy dude.

We really should stop overusing this term before it loses all meaning.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

MyOwnDrum said:
He sounds like he was in a similar mental state as a Mid East terrorist. He was suicidal and at the end of his rope, with a clearly identifiable enemy, the IRS. He was probably about to lose his house too, so he burned it to keep the bank from getting anything out of it, since the banks, too, were in the enemy camp.
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The difference though is that suicide bombers are part of a greater network with well established political goals. I doubt this guy believed he was going to change society in any way.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

Deuce said:
Sorry if you felt insulted, I didn't meant to say that ALL conservatives do this ALL the time.
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Actually extremely partisan people on both sides do it all the time. I'll happily link you to the thread where goldendog and other liberals, prior to any real facts coming out, proclaimed it was the fault of the tea partiers and the extreme right wing for the hanging of a man simply because it was in a southern state and he had "fed" written in his chest.

Both sides have their people that like to jump to conclussions before the facts are actually out.

My money is on "going postal" for this particular scenario.
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You seem to forget where "Going postal" originated from, which was postal workers getting upset with regards to their work and going ballistic there.

Generally I won't speculate and I will never state as fact, but just from the most basic of information so far domestic terrorism could likely be how I'd call it if there's any evidence of any statements that this man possibly sent out prior to doing this or evidence later he was doing this to make some kind of political point and its shown he intended to target an IRS building.

Striking out against a civilian target specifically to send a political message either through intimidation, fear, or destruction is generally what I'd consider a terorrist act....be it islamic extremists blowing up a hotel, Environmental extremists sabatoging companies equipment, or a loan guy "going crazy" and attacking a federal building (ala McVeigh and potentially this guy).

That said, we don't have that evidence yet so we shouldn't make the claim as a definitive. However, Fox and CNN and 24/7 news outlets essentially exist to speculate.

What we know now is the guy burnt down his house, flew a plane into a building, and that building housed the IRS.

We don't know if it was the IRS being in there that was the target

We don't know if he had some kind of severe medical issue

We don't know if there was any indication of some kind of political message associated with it.

Once we find out information akin to that a more defintive definition could be given to it.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

megaprogman said:
I would hesitate to call this (or the fort hood shootings) terrorism because, as far as I can tell, there was no greater political agenda designed to get the general population to stop or start doing something or change policy.

I think in both cases, some unbalanced person got pissed off and decided to take matters in his own hands. Using this criteria, I don't believe the Dr. Tiller murder was terrorism either, again, it was just a crazy dude.

We really should stop overusing this term before it loses all meaning.
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Was McVeigh terrorism? He was seemingly simply striking out against the government and negative towards the government in general, not pushing for the population to stop or start doing something.

While perhaps a little overused, I would actually dare say that along with that people are more apt to argue that its not, even when it is, due to the stigma surrounding the very use of it now
 
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Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

MrVicchio said:
Links please, on conservatives blaming Obama for the Ft. Hood Terrorist attack.
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Limbaugh blames Obama for Fort Hood massacre

"we could almost say that this is Obama's fault!" (and lets not get any illusions about what he's saying. the "could almost say" is a qualifier that gets him out of trouble with the bosses)

Lacking Evidence, Hoekstra Blames Obama Admin. For Fort Hood | TPMMuckraker

Dick Morris: Barack Obama’s Policies Are to Blame for Fort Hood Massacre- Conservative New Media

Hannity concocts smear that Obama at fault for Ft. Hood shooting | Media Matters for America

edit: and shooting soldiers is not terrorism, it's war. Deception and espionage are part of war.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

Zyphlin said:
Was McVeigh terrorism? He was seemingly simply striking out against the government and negative towards the government in general, not pushing for the population to stop or start doing something.
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Of course, it was terrorism, because he was making a political statement through the use of mass murder.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

megaprogman said:
We really should stop overusing this term before it loses all meaning.
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Too late. Terrorists are the new communists. The right-wing always has to have some evil enemy they can use to frighten the public into supporting their positions.
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

danarhea said:
Of course, it was terrorism, because he was making a political statement through the use of mass murder.
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And if this guy was making a political statement with the intention of it being through damage and mass murder and was just an idiot that didn't realize that a small plane wasn't going to do anything on the scale of 9/11, would it be terrorism or not?

Does one have to not be an idiot in the method one goes about attempting to do damage for one to be able to be termed a terrorist? ;)
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

CrusaderRabbit08 said:
Too late. Terrorists are the new communists. The right-wing always has to have some evil enemy they can use to frighten the public into supporting their positions.
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"Global Warming Deniers"

"Fat Cats on Walstreet"

"Rich people"

"Neocons"

"Teabaggers"

"Fundamentalists"

yes yes, the left never utilitzes terms or groups of people to segment off a portion of the population for scorn and ridicule in order to give a focus to their constituency and to facilitate political goals.

They're completely innocent of it and we must simply rant about "the Right"

:roll:
 
Re: Plane crashes into Northwest Austin building (that houses the FBI)

Zyphlin said:
Was McVeigh terrorism? He was seemingly simply striking out against the government and negative towards the government in general, not pushing for the population to stop or start doing something.

While perhaps a little overused, I would actually dare say that along with that people are more apt to argue that its not, even when it is, due to the stigma surrounding the very use of it now
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Good question. Here is a quote from a letter McVeigh wrote to a fellow named Steve Colburn where he was trying to recruit people to his cause.

McVeigh said:
McVeigh also wrote a letter of recruitment to a customer named Steve Colbern:
“ A man with nothing left to lose is a very dangerous man and his energy/anger can be focused toward a common/righteous goal. What I'm asking you to do, then, is sit back and be honest with yourself. Do you have kids/wife? Would you back out at the last minute to care for the family? Are you interested in keeping your firearms for their current/future monetary value, or would you drag that '06 through rock, swamp and cactus...to get off the needed shot? In short, I'm not looking for talkers, I'm looking for fighters...And if you are a fed, think twice. Think twice about the Constitution you are supposedly enforcing (isn't "enforcing freedom" an oxymoron?) and think twice about catching us with our guard down – you will lose just like Degan did – and your family will lose.[36]
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I think that since he was trying to actively recruit people, he would fall on the terrorism side of the line, but this one is a hard case either way I think.
 
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