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Judging Stimulus by Job Data Reveals Success

FilmFestGuy said:
Say what you will, but at least say it with FACTS:

Unemployment: February '09 (since Obama took over mid-January) - 8.2%
Unemployment: January '10 - 9.7%

That's an 18% increase in unemployment. Granted, an increase and not a decrease - so it's only (potential) success is that it staved off even further losses.

And just a reminder:
Unemployment: February '01 - 4.2%
Unemployment: February '09 - 8.2%

So, under Bush unemployment rose by 95%.

Slam Obama all you'd like. But use the facts. Unemployment when he took over was 8.2% (I'd even let you use 7.7% - then January '09 rate). But 6% would be a full 50% off reality.
Click to expand...

Not that I disagree with your overall point, but this is a silly way to measure ;)

The bottom line is, the death spiral our economy was in has leveled off into a fidgety plateau and if the trend continues, it will (we can only hope) start going back up.

edit: Calling our President "your Messiah" is just as stupid as typing out his full first, middle, and last name. Debate policies and actions, attacking someone's name or your-perception-of-my-perception is just... weak.
 
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Deuce said:
Excellent job of addressing the points that I made. You really are an excellent debater.
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addressing your points?

about middle names?

and green skies?

why would anyone want to address that?

LOL!
 
The Prof said:
addressing your points?

about middle names?

and green skies?

why would anyone want to address that?

LOL!
Click to expand...

Who is reading this forum to you? You should get somebody else. I'll make it really easy for you, since picking out important information is a skill you've proven to lack:

That chart you were all bashing shows a clear reversal of trend in our economy, starting right about when that stimulus money started to flow.

So explain to me, how can you look at such a chart and conclude that President Obama has made things worse?
 
Deuce said:
How can people look at that chart and come up with the conclusion that Obama made things worse?

There is a clear and definitive reversal of trend shown on that chart. It happens right about where the stimulus funds start going out.
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Correlation =/= causation
 
RightinNYC said:
Correlation =/= causation
Click to expand...

Economic experts say that the stimulus halted the worst of the decline.

You say it's all a coincidence and in fact the tax cuts and contracts created by the stimulus package actually made things worse.

Provide evidence or reasoning to support your assertion.
 
Deuce said:
Economic experts say that the stimulus halted the worst of the decline.
Click to expand...

And I'm not disagreeing. I'm taking issue with your blind acceptance of dubious specific numbers and your misunderstanding of correlation v. causation. I'll ask again - do you actually think that the economy turned around the moment Obama got elected or the stimulus was passed like that chart would seem to indicate, or do you recognize that trying to attribute month-to-month changes in a $14 trillion economy to individual presidential proposals is absurd?

You say it's all a coincidence and in fact the tax cuts and contracts created by the stimulus package actually made things worse.
Click to expand...

No, I didn't say that. Try reading what I write and responding to that, rather than to the strawmen that you'd like to respond to.
 
Deuce said:
Not that I disagree with your overall point, but this is a silly way to measure ;)

The bottom line is, the death spiral our economy was in has leveled off into a fidgety plateau and if the trend continues, it will (we can only hope) start going back up.

edit: Calling our President "your Messiah" is just as stupid as typing out his full first, middle, and last name. Debate policies and actions, attacking someone's name or your-perception-of-my-perception is just... weak.
Click to expand...

I'm not the one who uses "your Messiah". So, I'm assuming that was addressed to someone else?
 
Deuce said:
Economic experts say that the stimulus halted the worst of the decline.

You say it's all a coincidence and in fact the tax cuts and contracts created by the stimulus package actually made things worse.

Provide evidence or reasoning to support your assertion.
Click to expand...

I personally don't doubt that it helped, I wish it would have been bigger, and I wish they would be doing more now. I think the pain felt by many during the recession could have been avoided had this been the case. However, to be fair the chart does not show a reversal of trend, only the slowing of a trend. Jobs were lost on every month of the chart except november.
 
RightinNYC said:
And I'm not disagreeing. I'm taking issue with your blind acceptance of dubious specific numbers and your misunderstanding of correlation v. causation. I'll ask again - do you actually think that the economy turned around the moment Obama got elected or the stimulus was passed like that chart would seem to indicate, or do you recognize that trying to attribute month-to-month changes in a $14 trillion economy to individual presidential proposals is absurd?



No, I didn't say that. Try reading what I write and responding to that, rather than to the strawmen that you'd like to respond to.
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I certainly don't think inauguration day created jobs. (well, maybe a couple temps who set up podiums and such...)

And no, I don't think the stimulus package was the sole factor in the turnaround, perhaps you noticed I never said anything of the sort. What I actually said was:

"How can you dumb ****ers claim that Obama made things worse?"

Me: The stimulus helped. We needed help. The sky is blue.
Conservatives here: Obama made things worse. The sky is green.
 
Deuce said:
Who is reading this forum to you? You should get somebody else. I'll make it really easy for you, since picking out important information is a skill you've proven to lack:

That chart you were all bashing shows a clear reversal of trend in our economy, starting right about when that stimulus money started to flow.

So explain to me, how can you look at such a chart and conclude that President Obama has made things worse?
Click to expand...

the only thing i said about that chart, master debater, is "it's pretty"

LOL!
 
too much of it's temporary

My Way News - Schools face big budget holes as stimulus runs out

too much of it's stupid

Florida schools giving away $350,000 worth of IPods -- using Stimulus Money... :: WRAL.com

too much of it's phantom

Associated Press Online Video Network

too much of it's laughable

City spending stimulus money on new tennis courts - Daily Chronicle

too much of it just plain didn't work

Newsvine - To see how stimulus has failed your state, see the table below.

too much of it was corrupt

Mark Penn's two firms awarded millions from stimulus for public relations work - TheHill.com

too much of it was just too expensive

Cost-benefit analysis of jobs stimulus | Analysis & Opinion | Reuters

too much of it was just so dishonest

ABC News Exclusive: Obama Administration Slashed 60,000 Jobs From Recent Stimulus Report - ABC News

in massachusetts

Stimulus fund job benefits exaggerated, review finds - The Boston Globe

in california

http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/2309303.html

too much pork

After a flurry of stimulus spending, questionable projects pile up | Washington Examiner

too much makeup

$2.3 million in federal stimulus money is going to pay for Tampa Bay area beauty school tuition - St. Petersburg Times

i could go on

like i said, the msm have been ALL OVER the stimu... i mean, recovery act

pathetic
 
The Prof said:
the only thing i said about that chart, master debater, is "it's pretty"

LOL!
Click to expand...

...yes Prof. That's kindof what I was getting at. You don't bother addressing any actual substance of any sort on any topic that I've ever seen you post on.
 
you mean, like barack's middle name, hussein?

or the color of greenish skies?

LOL!

i guess it's cuz i'm just not as INTO debating as you are

take a gander at the links above, master-d
 
Deuce said:
I certainly don't think inauguration day created jobs. (well, maybe a couple temps who set up podiums and such...)

And no, I don't think the stimulus package was the sole factor in the turnaround, perhaps you noticed I never said anything of the sort. What I actually said was:

"How can you dumb ****ers claim that Obama made things worse?"

Me: The stimulus helped. We needed help. The sky is blue.
Conservatives here: Obama made things worse. The sky is green.
Click to expand...

Setting aside the fact that jobs are not the only consideration in figuring out whether something is better or worse (debt is a consideration as well), why don't you show me where I said "Obama made things worse. The sky is green," thus prompting your response.

I'll wait.
 
The Prof said:
too much of it's temporary

My Way News - Schools face big budget holes as stimulus runs out

too much of it's stupid

Florida schools giving away $350,000 worth of IPods -- using Stimulus Money... :: WRAL.com

too much of it's phantom

Associated Press Online Video Network

too much of it's laughable

City spending stimulus money on new tennis courts - Daily Chronicle

too much of it just plain didn't work

Newsvine - To see how stimulus has failed your state, see the table below.

too much of it was corrupt

Mark Penn's two firms awarded millions from stimulus for public relations work - TheHill.com

too much of it was just too expensive

Cost-benefit analysis of jobs stimulus | Analysis & Opinion | Reuters

too much of it was just so dishonest

ABC News Exclusive: Obama Administration Slashed 60,000 Jobs From Recent Stimulus Report - ABC News

in massachusetts

Stimulus fund job benefits exaggerated, review finds - The Boston Globe

in california

http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/2309303.html

too much pork

After a flurry of stimulus spending, questionable projects pile up | Washington Examiner

too much makeup

$2.3 million in federal stimulus money is going to pay for Tampa Bay area beauty school tuition - St. Petersburg Times

i could go on

like i said, the msm have been ALL OVER the stimu... i mean, recovery act

pathetic
Click to expand...

Most of it did a lot of good. My school would be charging twice the tuition it is now if it would not be for the stimulus. This is a fact. Over 1/3 of the 25,000 students that go to the same college as me would not have been able to afford it this year had it not been for the stimulus giving funding to higher ed.
 
The Prof said:
you mean, like barack's middle name, hussein?

or the color of greenish skies?

LOL!

i guess it's cuz i'm just not as INTO debating as you are

take a gander at the links above, master-d
Click to expand...

Nicely pasted links. Care to provide any analysis beyond one-liners?

On cursory inspection, I find a lot of bad analysis and faulty information in these links, many of which look like...blogs. I'll go into more detail tomorrow, but it's too late for me to dig into this right now. Not too many hours before the alarm **** goes off and I have to do things to pay this internet bill.
 
drz-400 said:
Most of it did a lot of good. My school would be charging twice the tuition it is now if it would not be for the stimulus. This is a fact. Over 1/3 of the 25,000 students that go to the same college as me would not have been able to afford it this year had it not been for the stimulus giving funding to higher ed.
Click to expand...

too anecdotal to be of much worth

but effortless to kick back

College tuition hikes in double digits - Education- msnbc.com
 
Deuce said:
Nicely pasted links. Care to provide any analysis beyond one-liners?

On cursory inspection, I find a lot of bad analysis and faulty information in these links, many of which look like...blogs. I'll go into more detail tomorrow, but it's too late for me to dig into this right now. Not too many hours before the alarm **** goes off and I have to do things to pay this internet bill.
Click to expand...

analysis?

LOL!

there's nothing to analyze, it's HARD news

y'know, ap, the hill, reuters, abc, the bozeman daily chronicle (LOL!), the globe, the sac bee, the washington examiner, st petersburg times...

blogs like that

LOL!

you're a funny funny debater, master

when you get back tomorrow, be sure to do more on barack's middle name, hussein

that's my favorite
 
drz-400 said:
Most of it did a lot of good. My school would be charging twice the tuition it is now if it would not be for the stimulus. This is a fact. Over 1/3 of the 25,000 students that go to the same college as me would not have been able to afford it this year had it not been for the stimulus giving funding to higher ed.
Click to expand...

So you're saying that the stimulus is good because it took tens of millions of dollars out of someone else's pocket and put it into the pockets of students at your school.

I'm sure that that was very nice for all of you, but I'm not really seeing how that's related to "stimulus."
 
drz-400 said:
I'm pretty sure it is accurate. It is all in the presentation.

If you look close it looks like obama has more job losses total.
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Yeah, but he inherited those job losses, so they were really his. :roll:
 
As infrastructure projects perk up (signaling money being spent), there will be a multiplier effect. The lag in which debt is issued, money is appropriated, projects are planned, bids are accepted, firms orchestrate production is indeed timely.

For the nteenth time..... The stimulus was puny. It was weak. We needed at a bare minimum $1.5 trillion in infrastructure stimulus alone. There will most likely be a second.
 
RightinNYC said:
So you're saying that the stimulus is good because it took tens of millions of dollars out of someone else's pocket and put it into the pockets of students at your school.
Click to expand...

The money from the stimulus was borrowed. From foreigners or private institutions/investors who were not going to spend it. Given the composition of GDP; if we were to remove government stimulus from the (G) aspect.... would we be experiencing positive or negative growth?

I'm just saying... It was better than nothing.
 
The Prof said:
you mean, like barack's middle name, hussein?

or the color of greenish skies?

LOL!

i guess it's cuz i'm just not as INTO debating as you are

take a gander at the links above, master-d
Click to expand...
Professor haiku youve been railing against Obama from day 1. Somehow I doubt your sincerity that this was about the unemployment situation so I posit a question were you fidgeting as much as a chichuahua under Reagan as you are now?
 
Denial ain't the river in Egypt, Gentlemen.
 
The Prof said:
too anecdotal to be of much worth

but effortless to kick back

College tuition hikes in double digits - Education- msnbc.com
Click to expand...

I like how you post some news anecdotes and then call opposing views anecdotal.

The Prof said:
analysis?

LOL!

there's nothing to analyze, it's HARD news

y'know, ap, the hill, reuters, abc, the bozeman daily chronicle (LOL!), the globe, the sac bee, the washington examiner, st petersburg times...

blogs like that

LOL!

you're a funny funny debater, master

when you get back tomorrow, be sure to do more on barack's middle name, hussein

that's my favorite
Click to expand...

"There's nothing to analyze, I believe whatever I read if it fits my world view!"

You're the one who keeps typing out our President's full name. The point I was trying to make is that you have really weak partisan reasons for doing so. But again, you didn't really understand that. I'm seeing a trend.
 
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