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Greece loses EU voting power in blow to sovereignty

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Scarecrow Akhbar

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Greece loses EU voting power in blow to sovereignty

The European Union has shown its righteous wrath by stripping Greece of its vote at a crucial meeting next month, the worst humiliation ever suffered by an EU member state.

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, International Business Editor
Published: 7:56PM GMT 16 Feb 2010

The council of EU finance ministers said Athens must comply with austerity demands by March 16 or lose control over its own tax and spend policies altogether. It if fails to do so, the EU will itself impose cuts under the draconian Article 126.9 of the Lisbon Treaty in what would amount to economic suzerainty.

While the symbolic move to suspend Greece of its voting rights at one meeting makes no practical difference, it marks a constitutional watershed and represents a crushing loss of sovereignty.

Leinster shed bottlers tag with brilliant display to dismantle Munster"We certainly won't let them off the hook," said Austria's finance minister, Josef Proll, echoing views shared by colleagues in Northern Europe. Some German officials have called for Greece to be denied a vote in all EU matter until it emerges from "receivership".

The EU has still refused to reveal details of how it might help Greece raise €30bn (£26bn) from global debt markets by the end of June. Investors are unsure whether this is part of Kabuki play of "constructive ambiguity" to pressure Greece and keep markets guessing, or reflects the deep reluctance by Germany to be drawn deeper in an EU fiscal union. Greek bonds sold off as ten-year yields jumped to 6.42pc, but the euro rallied to $1.3765 against the dollar as broader issues resurfaced in currency markets.
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Europe's all a flutter over Greece's failure to pay back a mere 0.026 Trillion dollars.

The debt of the United States is a thousand times greater, and that's if you pretend Socialist Security and Medicare aren't ****ting the bed.

But hark! What's this? What are the socialists in charge of Europe saying about Greece?

Tuesday's EU verdict amounted to a thumbs down on Greece's earlier austerity efforts, viewed as too reliant on one-off measures and too light on spending cuts.
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Seems...the Europeans have some clue what is needed when a nation is running a deficit.

Why is it that the precise group that is doing it's best to remake America in Europe's image, the Democrats, flatly refuse to even discuss meaningful cuts in federal spending, when that's what their heros in Europe are demanding Greece do?
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Why is it that the precise group that is doing it's best to remake America in Europe's image, the Democrats, flatly refuse to even discuss meaningful cuts in federal spending, when that's what their heros in Europe are demanding Greece do?
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What is meaningful?

Obama proposed $11.6 billion in spending cuts and the Democratic controlled Congress accepted $6.9 billion (60%). In comparison Bush was able to only get $4 billion (40%) in cuts passed by the Republican congress in 2006 and $2 billion (15%) in 2007.

The Democrats have appeared to do more for budget cuts in the past 4 years then Republicans did the 8 years previous.
 
Pathetic hit piece by a Euro Skeptic newspaper.

Not only is the title extremely misleading but they are trying to portrait a rumour as a fact :rofl.

Greece has NOT lost any voting power for god sake lol.
 
Gibberish said:
What is meaningful?

Obama proposed $11.6 billion in spending cuts and the Democratic controlled Congress accepted $6.9 billion (60%). In comparison Bush was able to only get $4 billion (40%) in cuts passed by the Republican congress in 2006 and $2 billion (15%) in 2007.

The Democrats have appeared to do more for budget cuts in the past 4 years then Republicans did the 8 years previous.
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Yeah, some people want to say that $0.011 Trillion dollars is a deeply meaningful cut, but the reality is that the number is so ridiculousy small compared to the Messiah's projected $1.7 Trillion dollar deficit that it's like rationing the napkins to save expenses at a party that's serving a thousand tons of caviar.

No one gives a **** about your partisan hackery.
 
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PeteEU said:
Greece has NOT lost any voting power for god sake lol.
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"The European Union has shown its righteous wrath by stripping Greece of its vote at a crucial meeting next month, the worst humiliation ever suffered by an EU member state."

That says otherwise.

Let us know how Greece votes at that meeting, okay? Then you'll have some basis for claiming they didn't lose their right to vote.
 
Why aren't the people on this board who insist the United States has to spend it's way out of this Depression posting to tell us that Greece shouldn't cut, but should spend even more?
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Yeah, some people want to say that $0.011 Trillion dollars is a deeply meaningful cut, but the reality is that the number is so ridiculousy small compared to the Messiah's projected $1.7 Trillion dollar deficit that it's like rationing the napkins to save expenses at a party that's serving a thousand tons of caviar.

No one gives a **** about your partisan hackery.
Click to expand...

"the Messiah's projected $1.7 Trillion dollar deficit"? Did Obama come into office with a $0 deficit or was the majority inherited from a Republican President? What was the 2001 deficit after the last Democratic President left office and what was the deficit when the last Republican president left?

Like it or not, according to the numbers I have seen, the Democrats have thus far cut more from the budget spending then the Republicans did in the 8 years prior.

Of course some Democrats are trying to increase spending with crap initiatives like Universal Health Care but that program will never come to fruition in it's current bloated form. Thank God.
 
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Gibberish said:
"the Messiah's projected $1.7 Trillion dollar deficit"? Did Obama come into office with a $0 deficit or was the majority inherited from a Republican President?
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Okay, you've confirmed the suspicion that you don't know the difference between the budget deficit and the national debt. That's understandable, of course, since your Messiah is working furiously to make his deficits equal to the national debt.

However, there really is a difference between the two, and I don't make mistakes about them.

Your Messiah proposed a budget, His very own, with $1.700 trillion in projected deficits using his Rosie Scenario Opti-Scope to realize revenues from programs that haven't been implemented.

He nicely proposed $0.011 T to offset his $1.700 T deficit, because He's the hawkiest of the Budget Hawks. I mean, if those offsets come through, His deficit will be a mere $1.689 T. That's a fantastic improvement over his original $1.700 T proposal, isn't it?


Gibberish said:
What was the 2001 deficit after the last Democratic President left office and what was the deficit when the last Republican president left?
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Who cares? It's relevant to Greece's lost status in Europe in what way?

It's relevant to what must be done to fix the current US fiscal problems in what way?

Gibberish said:
Like it or not, according to the numbers I have seen, the Democrats have thus far cut more from the budget spending then the Republicans did in the 8 years prior.
Click to expand...

Oh. That makes sense. The Messiah increases spending by 100%, and increases cuts by 101%, and thus the net increase in deficit is well...the deficits are bigger.

The deficits are BIG...GRRRRRR.

Bigger.

That means not smaller, not the same size, but WORSE.

Are you getting the picture yet?

Your Messiah is GOING THE WRONG WAY. Maybe we'll get lucky, like Steve Martin and John Candy in Planes Trains and Automobiles and the on-rushing semi's will only scrape our paint.

Don't bet on it. This ain't a movie.

Gibberish said:
Of course some Democrats are trying to increase spending with crap initiatives like Universal Health Care but that program will never come to fruition in it's current bloated form. Thank God.
Click to expand...

The Messiah proposed massive increases in spending, including another Stimulus Porkulus bill....er they're calling them "Jobs" bills or some such nonsense.

Regardless, too many people in positions of power in this government falsely believe that the government can spend us into prosperity. But they're not posting here advocating that Greece spend more.

Why is that?
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Okay, you've confirmed the suspicion that you don't know the difference between the budget deficit and the national debt. That's understandable, of course, since your Messiah is working furiously to make his deficits equal to the national debt.

However, there really is a difference between the two, and I don't make mistakes about them.

Your Messiah proposed a budget, His very own, with $1.700 trillion in projected deficits using his Rosie Scenario Opti-Scope to realize revenues from programs that haven't been implemented.

He nicely proposed $0.011 T to offset his $1.700 T deficit, because He's the hawkiest of the Budget Hawks. I mean, if those offsets come through, His deficit will be a mere $1.689 T. That's a fantastic improvement over his original $1.700 T proposal, isn't it?




Who cares? It's relevant to Greece's lost status in Europe in what way?

It's relevant to what must be done to fix the current US fiscal problems in what way?



Oh. That makes sense. The Messiah increases spending by 100%, and increases cuts by 101%, and thus the net increase in deficit is well...the deficits are bigger.

The deficits are BIG...GRRRRRR.

Bigger.

That means not smaller, not the same size, but WORSE.

Are you getting the picture yet?

Your Messiah is GOING THE WRONG WAY. Maybe we'll get lucky, like Steve Martin and John Candy in Planes Trains and Automobiles and the on-rushing semi's will only scrape our paint.

Don't bet on it. This ain't a movie.



The Messiah proposed massive increases in spending, including another Stimulus Porkulus bill....er they're calling them "Jobs" bills or some such nonsense.

Regardless, too many people in positions of power in this government falsely believe that the government can spend us into prosperity. But they're not posting here advocating that Greece spend more.

Why is that?
Click to expand...

All I am pointing out is that your statement in your OP of "the Democrats, flatly refuse to even discuss meaningful cuts in federal spending" is incorrect. The Democrat controlled congress has approved more spending cuts then there was previously under the Republican Congress.

I'm not defending Obama's spending habits or saying the spending isn't our of control. Frankly I think his spending habits are wrong and he is an idiot to think he can spend our way out of a recession.
 
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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Why aren't the people on this board who insist the United States has to spend it's way out of this Depression posting to tell us that Greece shouldn't cut, but should spend even more?
Click to expand...

Greece doesn't have its own currency. Thats the main problem.

slok1.gif
 
Gibberish said:
All I am pointing out is that your statement in your OP of "the Democrats, flatly refuse to even discuss meaningful cuts in federal spending" is incorrect.
Click to expand...

No it's not.

Meaningful cuts are some significant fraction of the entitlement and discretionary spending budget, like an annual 10% pruning from the previous year, starting with the 2006 budget as a baseline.

Not "across the board" cuts, but the termination of programs and the cutting back of others until government is once again back in the suit the Constiution says it's supposed to fit in.

Gibberish said:
The Democrat controlled congress has approved more spending cuts then there was previously under the Republican Congress.
Click to expand...

Gimme a ****ing break, I already pointed out that $0.011 T isn't worth talking about against a $1.700 T budget. Try reading the posts you're responding to.

Put it in perspective. A family spent $34K more this year than their income. They've been spending more than they earn for four decades. Next year they're going to owe another $20K or more.

They have to make some cuts. They're going cut from their annual expenses a total of $220 each year.

With such an impressive feat, how long does the family have to keep their belt tightened before they're clear of debt?

You think that's a good plan for a family budget?

You think it's going to work any better for the United States?
 
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drz-400 said:
Greece doesn't have its own currency. Thats the main problem.

slok1.gif
Click to expand...

That's only part of the problem.

Let's hope the United States isn't stupid enough to surrender it's sovereignity to the UN.

And yes, our Debt/GDP ratio isn't the highest.

It isn't zero, either. Families that carry an annual debt equal to their annual income don't fare well, either.

Our goal should be to make the US excel every other nation on earth. Burdening our children with unmanageable debt isn't the way to acheive this.
 
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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Okay, you've confirmed the suspicion that you don't know the difference between the budget deficit and the national debt. That's understandable, of course, since your Messiah is working furiously to make his deficits equal to the national debt.

However, there really is a difference between the two, and I don't make mistakes about them.

Your Messiah proposed a budget, His very own, with $1.700 trillion in projected deficits using his Rosie Scenario Opti-Scope to realize revenues from programs that haven't been implemented.

He nicely proposed $0.011 T to offset his $1.700 T deficit, because He's the hawkiest of the Budget Hawks. I mean, if those offsets come through, His deficit will be a mere $1.689 T. That's a fantastic improvement over his original $1.700 T proposal, isn't it?




Who cares? It's relevant to Greece's lost status in Europe in what way?

It's relevant to what must be done to fix the current US fiscal problems in what way?



Oh. That makes sense. The Messiah increases spending by 100%, and increases cuts by 101%, and thus the net increase in deficit is well...the deficits are bigger.

The deficits are BIG...GRRRRRR.

Bigger.

That means not smaller, not the same size, but WORSE.

Are you getting the picture yet?

Your Messiah is GOING THE WRONG WAY. Maybe we'll get lucky, like Steve Martin and John Candy in Planes Trains and Automobiles and the on-rushing semi's will only scrape our paint.

Don't bet on it. This ain't a movie.



The Messiah proposed massive increases in spending, including another Stimulus Porkulus bill....er they're calling them "Jobs" bills or some such nonsense.

Regardless, too many people in positions of power in this government falsely believe that the government can spend us into prosperity. But they're not posting here advocating that Greece spend more.

Why is that?
Click to expand...

Using history as a lens, can you point to a single Republican president who has overseen a reduction in deficits for the course of his term in office in the past 40 years?

The answer is no.

Now, Obama's deficit is currently a concern. For freakin' sure. What's foolish of the administration is not looking forward and showing how - in the future - they intend to cut deficit spending. Now, it's fair to argue that it's because he's not planning to. I'll grant you that.

But - what historical evidence do you have that Republicans will do any better? Because history shows - whether they have a Democratic Congress OR a Republican Congress, deficits will rise. In fact: deficit under Reagan - doubled. Under Bush 1 - doubled. Under Bush 2 - I'm not sure how you calculate from a net positive when you come in to a trillion when you leave.

So, yes. Obama has doubled the deficit he inherited. By percentage, that actually puts him on par with a Republican like Reagan or Bush 1 (who had Democrats in Congress). It still makes him - by percentage - better than Bush 2 and the Republicans he had in Congress.

And I'll say honestly - I don't give a crap about Greece's deficit. So why would I post about it. I only care about the silliness of comparing a tiny economy to ours; when they're vastly different.

You complain when others suggest that we could learn from nations like Norway; why should we try to take lessons from Greece? It's no different.

http://www.headybrew.net/images/content/budget_deficit_or_surplus.gif
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Europe's all a flutter over Greece's failure to pay back a mere 0.026 Trillion dollars.

The debt of the United States is a thousand times greater, and that's if you pretend Socialist Security and Medicare aren't ****ting the bed.

But hark! What's this? What are the socialists in charge of Europe saying about Greece?



Seems...the Europeans have some clue what is needed when a nation is running a deficit.

Why is it that the precise group that is doing it's best to remake America in Europe's image, the Democrats, flatly refuse to even discuss meaningful cuts in federal spending, when that's what their heros in Europe are demanding Greece do?
Click to expand...
I love this idea, we should cut off California's voting power. :mrgreen:
 
FilmFestGuy said:
Using history as a lens, can you point to a single Republican president who has overseen a reduction in deficits for the course of his term in office in the past 40 years?
Click to expand...

Using history as a lens, can you point to any post of yours that is on topic?
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Using history as a lens, can you point to any post of yours that is on topic?
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If you'd actually read, you'd see that I connected it to the topic at the end.

I'm not the one that took it into a discussion about spending in America vs. spending in Greece. I was pointing out the fallacy of the comparison first of all. Second of all, I was pointing out the fact that you all seem to be claiming that by getting Republicans in will cut the spending here. I was simply pointing out that history says that won't happen.

Someone asked why liberals weren't posting that Greece should spend their way out of their woes. It's a false, invalid comparison.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
I don't spend a lot of time reading posts that start off reminding me of my nagging ex-wife.
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Right. It's obvious that you only read things that you agree with.

That's the problem with a LOT of Americans.

Don't let things like facts get in the way.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
"The European Union has shown its righteous wrath by stripping Greece of its vote at a crucial meeting next month, the worst humiliation ever suffered by an EU member state."

That says otherwise.

Let us know how Greece votes at that meeting, okay? Then you'll have some basis for claiming they didn't lose their right to vote.
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LOL what basis does the article have to say it? NONE.

In fact the best they can come up with is this

Some German officials have called for Greece to be denied a vote in all EU matter until it emerges from "receivership".
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Okay, who said it? And even if someone important from Germany said it, it clearly states... "have called for", as in it has not happened and hence the title of the article is false.

Other than that they provide no proof what so ever that it has happened. Hence it is a freaking hit job by a Euro Skeptic newspaper.
 
FilmFestGuy said:
Right. It's obvious that you only read things that you agree with.

That's the problem with a LOT of Americans.

Don't let things like facts get in the way.
Click to expand...
So Americans don't pay attention to facts? Does that include yourself?
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Europe's all a flutter over Greece's failure to pay back a mere 0.026 Trillion dollars.

The debt of the United States is a thousand times greater, and that's if you pretend Socialist Security and Medicare aren't ****ting the bed.

But hark! What's this? What are the socialists in charge of Europe saying about Greece?



Seems...the Europeans have some clue what is needed when a nation is running a deficit.

Why is it that the precise group that is doing it's best to remake America in Europe's image, the Democrats, flatly refuse to even discuss meaningful cuts in federal spending, when that's what their heros in Europe are demanding Greece do?
Click to expand...

You know, we fought a war and created a new nation because of the idea of no taxation without representation. Perhaps Greece can read our history, learn a lesson, and leave the EU?

Just sayin' :mrgreen:
 
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