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Snow days mean less food for many students

A pack of ramen is about 25 cents a pack or less and a box of mac and cheese is 35 cents or less and a pack of hotdogs is less than a dollar.They do not need the Kraft,Oscar Mayer, or any other name brand. Besides if they are getting food stamps they can't use food stamps to buy gas.
ramen, mac and cheese, and hotdogs are not exactly the most healthy things to feed kids on a regular basis....they may be fine for college students, but not little kids .
 
There is no social contract in the US to support a school lunch program under the Constitution. If you contend there is, please show me the clause and background.

1. You have no constitutional protection in the U.S. Constitution that protects you from the federal government spending your tax dollars on programs that you disagree with. Your only recourse is to exercise your positive rights to either vote, petition your government, or convince others of your view.

2. Promote the general welfare is unfortunately a very broad statement. Now one might argue that many social safety-nets provide rather than promote the general welfare. However, the statement is so broad as to make virtually any safety-net the people's chosen representatives vote in constitutional. 100 years of federal judiciary rulings back that up as well.

If disagree, then fine. You have a constitutional recourse and that is to vote congressmen in that share your view and thus will do away with the school lunch program. However, you will get no where, regardless of who the federal judge is, if you think you can challenge it on constitutional grounds.
 
Whether you agree with the school lunch program or not, anyone with even a elementary understanding of civics knows that allocating part of your tax dollars towards it does not constitute theft, but rather its social contract. There is 195 nations in the "market of nations" to choose from. If someone does not like the social contract in the United States, there are 194 different nations on the menu - all with their own social contracts that residents live under.

My point is that calling anything your tax dollars goes to "theft" is an argument for people that are a lot less intelligent than you are.

Politically, there is no Constitutional amendment that would allow government allocation of tax dollars for a social contract, and before someone brings up the "general welfare" preamble clause -- the preamble is NOT support in and of itself but is an introduction. I do not think the general welfare clause of the pre-amble gives the Federal Government the right to allocate funds for social contracts.


This was the case in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries.


"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." - Thomas Jefferson, 1798


"[I must question] the constitutionality and propriety of the Federal Government assuming to enter into a novel and vast field of legislation, namely, that of providing for the care and support of all those … who by any form of calamity become fit objects of public philanthropy ... I cannot find any authority in the Constitution for making the Federal Government the great almoner of public charity throughout the United States. To do so would, in my judgment, be contrary to the letter and spirit of the Constitution and subversive of the whole theory upon which the Union of these States is founded." - President Franklin Pierce, 1854



"As a matter of fact and law, the governing rights of the States are all of those which have not been
surrendered to the National Government by the Constitution or its amendments. Wisely or unwisely,
people know that under the Eighteenth Amendment Congress has been given the right to legislate on this particular subject1, but this is not the case in the matter of a great number of other vital problems of government, such as the conduct of public utilities, of banks, of insurance, of business, of agriculture, of education, of social welfare and of a dozen other important features. In these, Washington must not be encouraged to interfere." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1930
 
Politically, there is no Constitutional amendment that would allow government allocation of tax dollars for a social contract, and before someone brings up the "general welfare" preamble clause -- the preamble is NOT support in and of itself but is an introduction. I do not think the general welfare clause of the pre-amble gives the Federal Government the right to allocate funds for social contracts.


This was the case in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries.


"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." - Thomas Jefferson, 1798


"[I must question] the constitutionality and propriety of the Federal Government assuming to enter into a novel and vast field of legislation, namely, that of providing for the care and support of all those … who by any form of calamity become fit objects of public philanthropy ... I cannot find any authority in the Constitution for making the Federal Government the great almoner of public charity throughout the United States. To do so would, in my judgment, be contrary to the letter and spirit of the Constitution and subversive of the whole theory upon which the Union of these States is founded." - President Franklin Pierce, 1854



"As a matter of fact and law, the governing rights of the States are all of those which have not been
surrendered to the National Government by the Constitution or its amendments. Wisely or unwisely,
people know that under the Eighteenth Amendment Congress has been given the right to legislate on this particular subject1, but this is not the case in the matter of a great number of other vital problems of government, such as the conduct of public utilities, of banks, of insurance, of business, of agriculture, of education, of social welfare and of a dozen other important features. In these, Washington must not be encouraged to interfere." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1930

That is all neither here nor there. The Federal Judiciary are the ultimate arbiters of what is and what is not constitutional. No one has ever successfully changed the constitutionality of the school lunch program, or any of the other safety-nets out there. Therefore, they are constitutional. Thats how it works, Civics 101 here.
 
If you want to talk about getting the federal government out of the business of providing all these social safety-nets, like a federal school lunch program - which is only a farm subsidy, then I agree, a lot of this stuff would be far more efficiently dealt with at the state and local level.

My only point is that it stupid to argue that they are unconstitutional. If they were unconstitutional, they would have been successfully challenged in the federal courts by now.

Moreover, its stupid to call it theft. Taxes are the fees you pay to live and work in a nation, state, and locality. Its not theft. Are they too high? Hell yeah they are too high. Its not theft though.
 
Whether you agree with the school lunch program or not, anyone with even a elementary understanding of civics knows that allocating part of your tax dollars towards it does not constitute theft, but rather its social contract. There is 195 nations in the "market of nations" to choose from. If someone does not like the social contract in the United States, there are 194 different nations on the menu - all with their own social contracts that residents live under.

My point is that calling anything your tax dollars goes to "theft" is an argument for people that are a lot less intelligent than you are.

The Founders based the Constitution on the principle that the government would protect our liberty and enact such laws and regulation as necessary to secure our rights, and social contract was then up to us.

I grew up in a time when there was much more real poverty, but nobody expected anybody to feed their kids but themselves. And I either went to school with lunch money or a sack lunch every single school day. With all the benefits available to every human in America, including illegal aliens, you can't tell me that anybody is too destitute to fix their kid a peanut butter sandwich to take to school. If they are, they are so neglecting their kids that the kids should be taken away and put in a good orphanage where they will be fed and loved and disciplined and educated and fed three squares a day.

The social contract should not be to assume parenting responsibilities for lazy parents. The social contract should be to lay such a heavy guilt trip on parents who neglect their kids that parents will begin taking responsibility for them again. Kids should grow up seeing Dad and/or Mom going to work and bringing home a paycheck that pays the rent and buys their clothes and food. How do kids watching their parents subsist on government handouts or who expect free food at school learn any personal responsibility at all?
 
The Founders based the Constitution on the principle that the government would protect our liberty and enact such laws and regulation as necessary to secure our rights, and social contract was then up to us.

I grew up in a time when there was much more real poverty, but nobody expected anybody to feed their kids but themselves. And I either went to school with lunch money or a sack lunch every single school day. With all the benefits available to every human in America, including illegal aliens, you can't tell me that anybody is too destitute to fix their kid a peanut butter sandwich to take to school. If they are, they are so neglecting their kids that the kids should be taken away and put in a good orphanage where they will be fed and loved and disciplined and educated and fed three squares a day.

The social contract should not be to assume parenting responsibilities for lazy parents. The social contract should be to lay such a heavy guilt trip on parents who neglect their kids that parents will begin taking responsibility for them again. Kids should grow up seeing Dad and/or Mom going to work and bringing home a paycheck that pays the rent and buys their clothes and food. How do kids watching their parents subsist on government handouts or who expect free food at school learn any personal responsibility at all?

I agree with all that. I am just pointing out that its a stupid argument to say that the school lunch program is unconstitutional. If its unconstitutional then someone would have easily challenged it in the federal judiciary by now.

Moreover, taxes are not theft. They are fees. Fees that in many cases are too high, but fees just the same.

Also, the national school lunch program was signed into law in 1946. So most likely, you grew up under it just like everyone else on here did.
 
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There is no social contract in the US to support a school lunch program under the Constitution. If you contend there is, please show me the clause and background.

You are the thinking man today, American. Keep that up, and I will have to quit teasing you downstairs. :mrgreen:
 
Oh man this makes me really sad...

To you folks who don't care about the poor, the economy has been bad for a lot of people for a lot longer than just going back to 2008. The only reason it turned into such a big deal then is because a few rich people found out that their house wasn't worth as much as they thought and started whinning about it.

So 'f' you, you 'f'ing' richie 'f'-bags. Do you even realize how bad this economy is and has been for millions of people since 2001?
 
The Founders based the Constitution on the principle that the government would protect our liberty and enact such laws and regulation as necessary to secure our rights, and social contract was then up to us.

I grew up in a time when there was much more real poverty, but nobody expected anybody to feed their kids but themselves. And I either went to school with lunch money or a sack lunch every single school day. With all the benefits available to every human in America, including illegal aliens, you can't tell me that anybody is too destitute to fix their kid a peanut butter sandwich to take to school. If they are, they are so neglecting their kids that the kids should be taken away and put in a good orphanage where they will be fed and loved and disciplined and educated and fed three squares a day.

The social contract should not be to assume parenting responsibilities for lazy parents. The social contract should be to lay such a heavy guilt trip on parents who neglect their kids that parents will begin taking responsibility for them again. Kids should grow up seeing Dad and/or Mom going to work and bringing home a paycheck that pays the rent and buys their clothes and food. How do kids watching their parents subsist on government handouts or who expect free food at school learn any personal responsibility at all?

Well it's because the Bush administration lifted bank regulations (the ones put in place after the great depression) that protected our liberty from greedy robber barons that have now effectively destroyed entire towns because of their lack of responsibility. Why don't you bring that to your next Tea Party and make sure you blame Bush not Obama.
 
That is all neither here nor there. The Federal Judiciary are the ultimate arbiters of what is and what is not constitutional. No one has ever successfully changed the constitutionality of the school lunch program, or any of the other safety-nets out there. Therefore, they are constitutional. Thats how it works, Civics 101 here.

It's not Constitutionally covered and therefore open to be challenged as it is a type of theft by the government. If you want a safety net, get a second job. Otherwise, charity is the way to go. You're logic that somehow because something has never been challenged it must therefore be Constitutional is not only naive but logically flawed beyond belief.

It's here... and there.
 
Oh man this makes me really sad...

To you folks who don't care about the poor, the economy has been bad for a lot of people for a lot longer than just going back to 2008. The only reason it turned into such a big deal then is because a few rich people found out that their house wasn't worth as much as they thought and started whinning about it.

So 'f' you, you 'f'ing' richie 'f'-bags. Do you even realize how bad this economy is and has been for millions of people since 2001?

I was one of the poor. I don't get pissed off at the rich - they got there by being smart, educating themselves and applying themselves. If they keep their money, that means they also have restraint.

I pick on the poor because the poor do not stay poor long if they apply themselves. If they stay poor - there's something more at work - either fatal character flaws that cause repeated mistakes or that they're lazy or want to nurse on the system as an alternative lifestyle. The poor stay poor by government continuing to give them hand outs... there's no motivation for them to do anything BUT stay poor to continue to get the handout. Cut the funds to the bone, and what funds there are, make sure it's very finite. Instead of giving them the handout, give them tools to better themselves.
 
I guess the Nanny State needs to go home with these people an live their lives for them, because they must be utterly incapable of even feeding their kids, right? The kiddos are missing out on their 'one nutritious meal' of the day (that's laughable, has anyone taken a look at those school lunches lately?) because of they are missing an extra day of school from the snow.

I guess the parents count on the kids eating free lunch at school to keep them in beer money, is that it? Maybe Obama can start a program to keep free lunches going 7 days a week, eh?

Snow days deprive many kids of food - Weather- msnbc.com
maybe the parents are at fault, but i still want to see these kids get fed. their birth circumstances aren't their fault.
 
I agree with all that. I am just pointing out that its a stupid argument to say that the school lunch program is unconstitutional. If its unconstitutional then someone would have easily challenged it in the federal judiciary by now.

Moreover, taxes are not theft. They are fees. Fees that in many cases are too high, but fees just the same.

Also, the national school lunch program was signed into law in 1946. So most likely, you grew up under it just like everyone else on here did.

Yes I grew up under the national school lunch program which is why I took lunch money to school or a sack lunch (because I usually liked that much better.) When the program was first initiated, however, it was a place to dump subsidized agricultural products and otherwise, except for students who honestly could not afford the full fees, was expected to pretty well pay for itself and wasn't any significant budget drain. By the time it became something much more than that, no politician had the guts to challenge the constitutionality of it. Everybody was expected to pay though. The teachers dug in their own pockets to pay for the kid who forgot his lunch or lunch money. The parents invariably felt obligated to reimburse the teacher. The program bypassing parental responsibility came later.

Under the original intent of the Constitution, taxes that confiscate wealth from the productive in order to transfer it to the less productive or nonproductive are indeed theft with regulation written by thieves. Only those taxes used to protect and secure everybody's rights and/or provide the general welfare for everybody are legal under the original intent of the Constitution. Taxes are not 'fees'.

Fees are paid by those who use specific direct services and are intended to pay for those services used. I have no quarrel whatsoever with fees for services.
 
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It's not Constitutionally covered and therefore open to be challenged as it is a type of theft by the government. If you want a safety net, get a second job. Otherwise, charity is the way to go. You're logic that somehow because something has never been challenged it must therefore be Constitutional is not only naive but logically flawed beyond belief.

It's here... and there.

Just about every social safety-net in place right now, Medicare and Social Security included, was challenged in the federal courts. Those challenges failed.

Social Security Online

That is all the matters as to whether something is constitutional or not. Congress could pass a law that required every American to go back to using an outhouse. If the federal judiciary upheld it, then guess what, its constitutional.
 
maybe the parents are at fault, but i still want to see these kids get fed. their birth circumstances aren't their fault.

Exactly. Clamoring for children to pay "social justice" for their poor parents is a tad bit childish. I am against the nanny state as much as anyone, but we must consider the alternative.

Sound analysis will always trump ideology.
 
Just about every social safety-net in place right now, Medicare and Social Security included, was challenged in the federal courts. Those challenges failed.

Social Security Online

That is all the matters as to whether something is constitutional or not. Congress could pass a law that required every American to go back to using an outhouse. If the federal judiciary upheld it, then guess what, its constitutional.

Congress could if the existing toilets were funded using federal money. And you're wrong. The federal judiciary does not make law, it upholds the Constitutionality of law. You're view seems to be that case law is greater than the Constitution - and that is just plain wrong.
 
maybe the parents are at fault, but i still want to see these kids get fed. their birth circumstances aren't their fault.

You're right, but in my opinion, any parent who does not feed his/her kids has no business with those kids in the first place. The kids are almost certainly being neglected and/or abused in every other way as well.

Neglected and abused children should be reassigned to people who will not neglect and abuse them.
 
Neglected and abused children should be reassigned to people who will not neglect and abuse them.

Quite huffy to argue that all parents who are financially struggling are abusing/neglecting their children.

Ahh, the life of a foster child.....
 
Exactly. Clamoring for children to pay "social justice" for their poor parents is a tad bit childish. I am against the nanny state as much as anyone, but we must consider the alternative.

Sound analysis will always trump ideology.
as a person who got reduced fee lunches for a short time......it was NOT my mother's "fault" that the program was necessary. i really do get tired of people who lump all recipients of aid into the same category.
 
Congress could if the existing toilets were funded using federal money. And you're wrong. The federal judiciary does not make law, it upholds the Constitutionality of law. You're view seems to be that case law is greater than the Constitution - and that is just plain wrong.

What you don't seem to understand is that the federal judiciary are the ultimate arbiters of what is and what is not constitutional.

For example, Bill thinks that Social Security is unconstitutional. Therefore, Bill challenges that constitutionality of the Social Security Act in the federal courts. The case is heard in the federal courts and the Social Security Act is found to be constitutional. Thus, for all intents and purposes it is constitutional.

That is how it works. For better or for worse, that is our system of government in a nutshell.
 
You're right, but in my opinion, any parent who does not feed his/her kids has no business with those kids in the first place. The kids are almost certainly being neglected and/or abused in every other way as well.

Neglected and abused children should be reassigned to people who will not neglect and abuse them.
you have no idea of the circumstances people find themselves in. how very judgemental of you.
 
Oh man this makes me really sad...

To you folks who don't care about the poor, the economy has been bad for a lot of people for a lot longer than just going back to 2008. The only reason it turned into such a big deal then is because a few rich people found out that their house wasn't worth as much as they thought and started whinning about it.

So 'f' you, you 'f'ing' richie 'f'-bags. Do you even realize how bad this economy is and has been for millions of people since 2001?

Does that mean we blame Clinton?
 
Well it's because the Bush administration lifted bank regulations (the ones put in place after the great depression) that protected our liberty from greedy robber barons that have now effectively destroyed entire towns because of their lack of responsibility. Why don't you bring that to your next Tea Party and make sure you blame Bush not Obama.

It started back in Carter but believe what you want
 
What you don't seem to understand is that the federal judiciary are the ultimate arbiters of what is and what is not constitutional.

For example, Bill thinks that Social Security is unconstitutional. Therefore, Bill challenges that constitutionality of the Social Security Act in the federal courts. The case is heard in the federal courts and the Social Security Act is found to be constitutional. Thus, for all intents and purposes it is constitutional.

That is how it works. For better or for worse, that is our system of government in a nutshell.

That may mean that the case was not presented in such a way to convince the SCOTUS of it's lack of Constitutionality. That does not mean it is Constitutional, it simply means there was not enough evidence to convince the SCOTUS. Now we all know that the SCOTUS may also have a bias for or against such a position depending upon their interpretation. That interpretation changes with the membership of the bench. For example, Brown vs. Board of Education Topeka was overturned at the right time. Until then all de-segregation challenges were upheld. Using your logic, and you'd be against a challenge of Brown again because it's been tried before and failed so therefore, segregation should continue to exist.

Wrong. Because it hasn't been overturned yet doesn't mean it won't be or SHOULD be. And case law until now does not address the point you continue to avoid: There is NO, ZERO, BUPKUS, NADA item in the Constitution that allows for social contract funding for welfare. Period.
 
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