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Thread: Snow days mean less food for many students

  1. #191
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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    It is the expectation of perfection that I mostly have an issue with. Everyone is going to make some stupid bonehead decision in their life, usually several, but to condemn them for it when they are helpless is appalling. Everyone needs forgiveness from time to time.
    I don't have an expectation of perfection. A stupid boneheaded decision results in having to cut back and make some sacrifices.

    Sometimes it means not paying off your entire credit card balance one month and having to make it up the next. Sometimes it means living on pasta, and eggs, and bread and rice and other inexpensive foods for a little while. Sometimes it means drinking water for a while instead of soda. Sometimes it means selling the car and taking the bus.

    In very very extreme cases, a stupid bonehead decision results in swallowing your pride and asking your friends and family to help you while you get your life straightened out.

    Once you get to the point where you have maxed out all your credit cards, ruined your credit score so badly that you can't get a loan, don't have a car or any other nonessential assets to sell, get get a payday advance from moneytree, have alienated everyone you know to the point where no one will help you, and have to rely on the government to force taxpayers to help you out so that your kids can have something to eat, you have passed the point of making a boneheaded decision.

    At that point you have demonstrated a pattern of irresponsibility, and are not fit to be rearing children until you get your life in order.

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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    Why is it evil to say that people need to be able to take care of their children if they are going to be parents? Even if it isn't their fault at all, if a parent can't care for their children the children need someone else to take care of them.

    If their mom gets hit by a truck running a red light and is in a coma, that is certainly not her fault or theirs, but she is no longer able to do the job, so the children need someone else to take care of them. Giving government assistance to the mother in the coma isn't going to magically make her able to do the job. The same goes for parents who can't get their act together for their children's sake.
    Technically, she would be at fault......

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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    IMO, this thread is riddled with willful ignorance and callous indifference --

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    I guess the parents count on the kids eating free lunch at school to keep them in beer money, is that it?
    And they say the liberal-Dems are elitist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    People make mistakes, bad choices ... and they pay for those bad choices. It's not the state or the government's job to feed and clothe them.
    Ockham: Please explain exactly how children make 'choices' that land them below the poverty line.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Just how many are there? And further more, how many of these people are in this position due to piss poor life choices?
    Again, exactly how do the children make these 'choices'?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    This is truly a shame that these kids aren't being fed at home. I would venture to say it's mainly due to the laziness and sheer lack of care on the parents side.
    Overgeneralize much? Every unemployed person is 'lazy'?

    But alas, there is one person who gets why we feed children when their parents can't:

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    maybe the parents are at fault, but i still want to see these kids get fed. their birth circumstances aren't their fault.
    Thank you.

  4. #194
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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    That's what child services is for, to take kids out of unfit homes and there is nothing wrong with it, but this wasn't what I was reacting to. It was the assumption that if the parent was unable to do something, it was automatically their fault when sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. You need to be careful with statements like "she should have known he was a drunk" when people's personal situations change all the time. My wife is a wonderful person, but she might change for some reason and not be one tomorrow, next month, or next year , I have no way of knowing or controlling that. She might have lied or concealed something from me before we got married, people do that all the time. No one has perfect knowledge over any situation. And to condemn them for it is evil because it is assuming moral superiority.

    Having a kid is a 20 year long process. If the requirement was the complete ability to predict all future situations before birth, the human race would die out in a generation.
    You don't end up being unable to take care of your children because of one poor decision or unforeseen circumstance. (aside from extreme cases such as deciding to kill them and chop them up into little pieces, or getting hit by a truck.)

    So maybe he wasn't drunk when she married him. That happens to plenty of people who manage to take care of their children anyway. Not being able to take care of your children is generally the result of a pattern of irresponsibility. Marrying a bad catch was just one link in the chain.

  5. #195
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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    Technically, she would be at fault......
    I meant that the truck was running a red light, and she got hit by it. If she got hit by a truck because she was jaywalking, that would still be her fault.

  6. #196
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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    I don't have an expectation of perfection. A stupid boneheaded decision results in having to cut back and make some sacrifices.

    Sometimes it means not paying off your entire credit card balance one month and having to make it up the next. Sometimes it means living on pasta, and eggs, and bread and rice and other inexpensive foods for a little while. Sometimes it means drinking water for a while instead of soda. Sometimes it means selling the car and taking the bus.

    In very very extreme cases, a stupid bonehead decision results in swallowing your pride and asking your friends and family to help you while you get your life straightened out.

    Once you get to the point where you have maxed out all your credit cards, ruined your credit score so badly that you can't get a loan, don't have a car or any other nonessential assets to sell, get get a payday advance from moneytree, have alienated everyone you know to the point where no one will help you, and have to rely on the government to force taxpayers to help you out so that your kids can have something to eat, you have passed the point of making a boneheaded decision.

    At that point you have demonstrated a pattern of irresponsibility, and are not fit to be rearing children until you get your life in order.
    That is one possibility. Another is that a person was laid off and cannot find a job that doesn't bankrupt them, this is a very real possibility right now with the economy the way it is. Again, it is those assumptions.

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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    That is one possibility. Another is that a person was laid off and cannot find a job that doesn't bankrupt them, this is a very real possibility right now with the economy the way it is. Again, it is those assumptions.
    If someone gets laid off, and can't find a job in the time it takes them to go through all of their credit, the proceeds of the sale of all their non-essential assets, and all the assistance they can get from friends and family, and can find no way to take care of their kids, then the kids need to go somewhere else until they are able to be a parent again.

    Also, the fact that there is only one parent providing for the kid in this scenario suggests that things have already gone horribly wrong.

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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    There is no social contract in the US to support a school lunch program under the Constitution. If you contend there is, please show me the clause and background.
    Okay:

    Preamble to the United States Constitution

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Article One of the United States Constitution, Section 8:
    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    Thomas Jefferson:“[T]he laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They [Congress] are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. In like manner, they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose.”

    SCOTUS:

    The U. S. Supreme Court first interpreted the clause in United States v. Butler (1936). There, Justice Owen Roberts, in his majority opinion, agreed with Hamilton's view and held that the general welfare language in the taxing-and-spending clause constituted a separate grant of power to Congress to spend in areas over which it was not granted direct regulatory control. Nevertheless, the Court stated that this power to tax and spend was limited to spending for matters affecting the national, as opposed to the local, welfare. He also wrote that the Supreme Court should be the final arbiter of what was in fact in the national welfare. In the Butler decision, however, the Court shed no light on what it considered to be in the national—as opposed to local—interest, because it struck down the statute at issue on Tenth Amendment grounds.
    The Court soon modified its holding in the Butler decision in Helvering v. Davis (1937). There, the Court sustained the old-age benefits provisions of the Social Security Act of 1935 and adopted an expansive view of the power of the federal government to tax and spend for the general welfare. In Helvering, the Court maintained that although Congress's power to tax and spend under the General Welfare clause was limited to general or national concerns, Congress itself could determine when spending constituted spending for the general welfare. To date, no legislation passed by Congress has ever been struck down because it did not serve the general welfare. Moreover, since congressional power to legislate under the Commerce clause has expanded the areas falling within Congress's enumerated powers, the General Welfare clause has decreased in importance.
    To sum up: SCOTUS has interpreted the Tax and Spend Clause (Article I, Section 8) as allowing Congress to tax and spend public monies for a variety of purposes, including educational research and instructional programs such as special education, science and math, vocational education, school lunches etc.

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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    That is all neither here nor there. The Federal Judiciary are the ultimate arbiters of what is and what is not constitutional. No one has ever successfully changed the constitutionality of the school lunch program, or any of the other safety-nets out there. Therefore, they are constitutional. Thats how it works, Civics 101 here.
    An appeal to authority is beneath you, not to mention quite boring...

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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I agree with all that. I am just pointing out that its a stupid argument to say that the school lunch program is unconstitutional. If its unconstitutional then someone would have easily challenged it in the federal judiciary by now.
    Cuz we all know the SCOTUS has never been wrong before...

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