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Thread: Snow days mean less food for many students

  1. #181
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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Wow. I hate to say it Panache, but the opinions you are expressing are pretty much meeting one of my personal definitions of evil. This is a simply stunning conversation to witness.
    Why? Again, I wish Panache was putting it more diplomatically, but how is he wrong? Do you disagree that if you're going to have kids, you should prepare yourself to feed, clothe, house, and educate them? I'm sure your mom was a wonderful woman and she in fact may have been in circumstances she never anticipated and which she was unable to deal with. But she did make the choices that she made. Who to marry. Whether to have kids. How she would prepare herself to support those kids. I neither judge her nor condemn her, but where do you draw the line in where it becomes your job to assume responsibility for the choices I make?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Why? Again, I wish Panache was putting it more diplomatically, but how is he wrong? Do you disagree that if you're going to have kids, you should prepare yourself to feed, clothe, house, and educate them? I'm sure your mom was a wonderful woman and she in fact may have been in circumstances she never anticipated and which she was unable to deal with. But she did make the choices that she made. Who to marry. Whether to have kids. How she would prepare herself to support those kids. I neither judge her nor condemn her, but where do you draw the line in where it becomes your job to assume responsibility for the choices I make?
    I certainly support expecting people to be personally responsible. But expecting them to be personally responsible, when they cannot help themselves, whether or not it is their fault (when you are helpless, fault no longer matters, at least in domestic situations like this), is an evil act. Personal responsibility and societal welfare are two sides of the same coin, to go totally one way or the other way is wrong.

    However to answer your question where to draw the line. I think it is impossible to answer because every situation has different details. This is one of the reasons its so easy to fight about welfare. It allows everyone to project their own personal views onto someone they have seen on society because that is what they are already sensitive too.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 02-17-10 at 03:35 PM.

  3. #183
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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Wow. I hate to say it Panache, but the opinions you are expressing are pretty much meeting one of my personal definitions of evil. This is a simply stunning conversation to witness.
    Glad I could entertain. Which opinions specifically do you find the most evil?

    I find the opinion that irresponsible parents need to be coddled to be evil. I understand that there is no sense punishing the children for their parents' irresponsibility, but when you pick up the slack for parents who can't cut it and incentivize them to continue being irresponsible, you really aren't doing the kids any favours.

    If parents can feed their kids, they need to feed their kids. If they can't feed their kids, the kids need to be taken away. The parents can get them back once they are ready to take care of them.

    The vast majority of parents will find ways to take care of their kids before it ever comes to that. The vast majority of the remainder will get their lives in order in a hurry.

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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You do know there are poor people in this country right? People who have to chose between $5 of gas to drive to work and $5 to buy something to eat for their kids?



    Or $3000 bucks for a large screen or 24" spinners yo.....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    Glad I could entertain. Which opinions specifically do you find the most evil?

    I find the opinion that irresponsible parents need to be coddled to be evil. I understand that there is no sense punishing the children for their parents' irresponsibility, but when you pick up the slack for parents who can't cut it and incentivize them to continue being irresponsible, you really aren't doing the kids any favours.

    If parents can feed their kids, they need to feed their kids. If they can't feed their kids, the kids need to be taken away. The parents can get them back once they are ready to take care of them.

    The vast majority of parents will find ways to take care of their kids before it ever comes to that. The vast majority of the remainder will get their lives in order in a hurry.
    It is the expectation of perfection that I mostly have an issue with. Everyone is going to make some stupid bonehead decision in their life, usually several, but to condemn them for it when they are helpless is appalling. Everyone needs forgiveness from time to time.

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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I certainly support expecting people to be personally responsible. But expecting them to be personally responsible, when they cannot help themselves, whether or not it is their fault (when you are helpless, fault no longer matters, at least in domestic situations like this), is an evil act. Personal responsibility and societal welfare are two sides of the same coin, to go totally one way or the other way is wrong.
    Why is it evil to say that people need to be able to take care of their children if they are going to be parents? Even if it isn't their fault at all, if a parent can't care for their children the children need someone else to take care of them.

    If their mom gets hit by a truck running a red light and is in a coma, that is certainly not her fault or theirs, but she is no longer able to do the job, so the children need someone else to take care of them. Giving government assistance to the mother in the coma isn't going to magically make her able to do the job. The same goes for parents who can't get their act together for their children's sake.

  7. #187
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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Liblady--Thanks for sharing that information because it was a great example of how the safety nets we have in place work.

    Your mom used that safety net in exactly the way it was meant to be used....as a helping hand over a rough period. You provided a prime example of why these types of safety nets are necessary.

    Here's something else to chew on: Women of a certain age were taught to make the bed they had made (some still are). Contraception wasn't even on the market not too long ago! The June Cleavers who were brought up to make the world bright and cheery on the outside while suffering a horrible personal life still exist in 2010.

    And, people change. The darling you married can evolve into an alcoholic abuser no matter how long you've known them prior to marrying. Life is nothing but constant change.

    I'm sorry that some posters took your example of how the system can work perfectly and turned it into something ugly.


    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    Why is it evil to say that people need to be able to take care of their children if they are going to be parents? Even if it isn't their fault at all, if a parent can't care for their children the children need someone else to take care of them.

    If their mom gets hit by a truck running a red light and is in a coma, that is certainly not her fault or theirs, but she is no longer able to do the job, so the children need someone else to take care of them. Giving government assistance to the mother in the coma isn't going to magically make her able to do the job. The same goes for parents who can't get their act together for their children's sake.
    That's what child services is for, to take kids out of unfit homes and there is nothing wrong with it, but this wasn't what I was reacting to. It was the assumption that if the parent was unable to do something, it was automatically their fault when sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. You need to be careful with statements like "she should have known he was a drunk" when people's personal situations change all the time. My wife is a wonderful person, but she might change for some reason and not be one tomorrow, next month, or next year , I have no way of knowing or controlling that. She might have lied or concealed something from me before we got married, people do that all the time. No one has perfect knowledge over any situation. And to condemn them for it is evil because it is assuming moral superiority.

    Having a kid is a 20 year long process. If the requirement was the complete ability to predict all future situations before birth, the human race would die out in a generation.

  9. #189
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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    Liblady--Thanks for sharing that information because it was a great example of how the safety nets we have in place work.

    Your mom used that safety net in exactly the way it was meant to be used....as a helping hand over a rough period. You provided a prime example of why these types of safety nets are necessary.

    Here's something else to chew on: Women of a certain age were taught to make the bed they had made (some still are). Contraception wasn't even on the market not too long ago! The June Cleavers who were brought up to make the world bright and cheery on the outside while suffering a horrible personal life still exist in 2010.

    And, people change. The darling you married can evolve into an alcoholic abuser no matter how long you've known them prior to marrying. Life is nothing but constant change.

    I'm sorry that some posters took your example of how the system can work perfectly and turned it into something ugly.
    thanks, i appreciate it. now i need to go cash in my food stamps and buy a flat screen for my bathroom....;-)

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Snow days mean less food for many students

    Snow days mean kids can get their shovels out and earn cash to buy food.

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