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Thread: Tea Party Movement Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right

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    Re: Tea Party Movement Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin View Post
    They don't and details indeed. Please answer the question if you can, how you arrived at the conclusion that the Tea Party intends to use firearms to overthrow the government? For a bonus you could throw in how you managed to arrive at that conclusion based upon the article you linked. I mean the article is pretty slanted and sprinkled with typical NYT hackery, but even this article from the NYT does not make the claim you have. So from where did you dream up that the Tea Party is going to use firearms to overthrow the government? Mr. Rogers' Bloviated Imagination Land?
    It's called... pull it out of your ass.

    I call it making an ass of yourself, but they are really both the same thing.
    Last edited by Crunch; 02-16-10 at 06:34 PM.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Tea Party Movement Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    It's called... pull it out of you ass.

    I call it making an ass of yourself, but they are really both the same thing.
    True that. Mr. Rockwell knows this, which is why he stuck around to address the error he made, like he always does. You just can't perceive it because he used invisible HTML!
    Last edited by Sir Loin; 02-16-10 at 06:26 PM.

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    Re: Tea Party Movement Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin View Post
    I'm sorry Hazelnut, I already addressed one of your idiotic arguments, the idea that Fox News viewers think all the other cable news media are biased; as if other news media are not biased. As all the cable news networks are biased, Fox News viewers are right.
    Yes -- as I noted, you made an appeal to belief -- "as if this really is not the case"...

    So, to be clear, you didn't address anything -- just a feeble fallacious argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin View Post
    You gotta love how he tries to slag Fox News watchers as being naive enough to think that the "other" news networks are biased, as if this really is not the case.
    Appeal to Belief / Appeal to Spite -- not a valid argument, sport.

    Try again, if you like.



    Have you got a peer reviewed study about media bias that debunks those already in the public domain?
    Those on conservative sites and WND...???

    Tell you what, Lion, you go first. I'd love to read one objective academic study that shows a clear across-the-board bias on both social and fiscal issues by the mainstream media...


    But no LINKS to WND...


    As for the rest of your yammering, back to the old Straw man, I see -- You love to put words in my mouth. I suppose that it's easier for you to debate me when you misconstrue the point...

    So, please show me where I state that all the other outlets were 100% unbiased and FOX was the only biased source?

    I was pretty specific in my comments regarding FNC; perhaps you should re-read and not just make crap up.

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    Re: Tea Party Movement Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Yes -- as I noted, you made an appeal to belief -- "as if this really is not the case"...

    So, to be clear, you didn't address anything -- just a feeble fallacious argument.



    Appeal to Belief / Appeal to Spite -- not a valid argument, sport.

    Try again, if you like.





    Those on conservative sites and WND...???

    Tell you what, Lion, you go first. I'd love to read one objective academic study that shows a clear across-the-board bias on both social and fiscal issues by the mainstream media...


    But no LINKS to WND...


    As for the rest of your yammering, back to the old Straw man, I see -- You love to put words in my mouth. I suppose that it's easier for you to debate me when you misconstrue the point...

    So, please show me where I state that all the other outlets were 100% unbiased and FOX was the only biased source?

    I was pretty specific in my comments regarding FNC; perhaps you should re-read and not just make crap up.
    Yes I made the statement that all cable news media are biased. You disagree? Because it seems like you want to argue but are unsure what you want to argue about. You attempted to supplant some issues you wanted to argue about, which had nothing to do with what I stated, so it appears I already went first.

    Some things are so simplistic they really need neither your confirmation nor your personal stamp of approval, but for arguments sake let us explore what you chose to reply to, that I stated.

    To quote precisely what came from your post, if in fact Fox News viewers think the other cable news media are biased, they are correct are they not? If not how so? By all means debunk away.

    If in fact you really think Fox viewers would be wrong, other cable news media are not biased, surely you have something other than just a Hazelnut thinks so, which is worth nada as you know.

    Seems to me you are already starting to try to wiggle out of your previous comment and add new facets to it that were not present. I understand, it was a patently dumb comment, but you made it so own it brave intellectual warrior. Good luck, I have zero confidence in you, so surprise me!
    Last edited by Sir Loin; 02-16-10 at 08:34 PM.

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    Re: Tea Party Movement Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin View Post
    If in fact you really think Fox viewers would be wrong, other cable news media are not biased, surely you have something other than just a Hazelnut thinks so, which is worth nada as you know.
    Now we're getting somewhere.

    First of all define "biased" -- if you're talking across the board slant on all stories every single day, I'd say no. Absolutely not.

    MSNBC offers counter-programming to FNC. Sort of. Many of their commentator/hosts are left-leaning counter-parts to those on FNC. Morning Joe is a mixed bag. Scarborough is a moderate, but Pat Buchanan is on a regular basis.

    CNN -- Anderson Cooper, Campbell Brown - pretty straight forward news programming. Larry King -- interview show with softball questions. They have a mid-day guy, Rick something who is left-leaning. But you'd have a hard time showing a consistent daily slant on stories coming out of CNN.

    Again, the qualification for bias is consistent. Not one story or even one show--but a daily effort to produce a news "narrative" from a specific angle.

    CBS, NBC, ABC -- local news highlight local stories. They cater to their audience and demos. The nightly network news shows cover stories from a variety of angles -- you'd have a hard time showing any consistent bias one way or another. I know Bill O'Rielly has got a hardon for NBC, but I don't see it.

    Newspapers -- Front page, straight news. Columnists -- opinion. Editorial page -- varies from week to week. Basically, they bigger papers cater to a certain audience and stories are selected and edited based on how well they'll sell that paper to their audience.

    IMO:

    The ONLY BIAS, meaning consistent slat on stories, you'll see is what I call a "conflict bias." Stories are framed around the most dramatic elements--the conflict between two sides.

    In dramatic story telling, you engage your audience by punching up the conflict between two people or parties. In order to make their programming more compelling, MSM will frame or tell stories from an angle that implies some sort of conflict. Listen to the language used over the weekend when Cheney and Biden made statements on the Sunday shows.

    Why does Sarah Palin get more coverage--because she's a polarizing personality--conflict comes naturally. Love her or hater her, viewers will stay tuned in.

    The one bias I will give you -- On social issues, there is more tolerance among people who work in the media for gays.

    A lot of "liberal media" bias arguments consist of finding fault in which stories were not covered. I have yet to see a legitimate relevant major story that was not covered by major outlets in some fashion.

    The bottom line here is that no other outlet, not even MSNBC approaches News/Editorial cable programming in the fashion FNC does -- they have reinvented New/editorial programing and packaged it as a daily news 'narrative' told from a conservative angle.

    This is nothing new. William Randolph Hearst ran his newspapers the same way.

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    Re: Tea Party Movement Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Now we're getting somewhere.

    First of all define "biased" -- if you're talking across the board slant on all stories every single day, I'd say no. Absolutely not.

    MSNBC offers counter-programming to FNC. Sort of. Many of their commentator/hosts are left-leaning counter-parts to those on FNC. Morning Joe is a mixed bag. Scarborough is a moderate, but Pat Buchanan is on a regular basis.

    CNN -- Anderson Cooper, Campbell Brown - pretty straight forward news programming. Larry King -- interview show with softball questions. They have a mid-day guy, Rick something who is left-leaning. But you'd have a hard time showing a consistent daily slant on stories coming out of CNN.

    Again, the qualification for bias is consistent. Not one story or even one show--but a daily effort to produce a news "narrative" from a specific angle.

    CBS, NBC, ABC -- local news highlight local stories. They cater to their audience and demos. The nightly network news shows cover stories from a variety of angles -- you'd have a hard time showing any consistent bias one way or another. I know Bill O'Rielly has got a hardon for NBC, but I don't see it.

    Newspapers -- Front page, straight news. Columnists -- opinion. Editorial page -- varies from week to week. Basically, they bigger papers cater to a certain audience and stories are selected and edited based on how well they'll sell that paper to their audience.

    IMO:

    The ONLY BIAS, meaning consistent slat on stories, you'll see is what I call a "conflict bias." Stories are framed around the most dramatic elements--the conflict between two sides.

    In dramatic story telling, you engage your audience by punching up the conflict between two people or parties. In order to make their programming more compelling, MSM will frame or tell stories from an angle that implies some sort of conflict. Listen to the language used over the weekend when Cheney and Biden made statements on the Sunday shows.

    Why does Sarah Palin get more coverage--because she's a polarizing personality--conflict comes naturally. Love her or hater her, viewers will stay tuned in.

    The one bias I will give you -- On social issues, there is more tolerance among people who work in the media for gays.

    A lot of "liberal media" bias arguments consist of finding fault in which stories were not covered. I have yet to see a legitimate relevant major story that was not covered by major outlets in some fashion.

    The bottom line here is that no other outlet, not even MSNBC approaches News/Editorial cable programming in the fashion FNC does -- they have reinvented New/editorial programing and packaged it as a daily news 'narrative' told from a conservative angle.

    This is nothing new. William Randolph Hearst ran his newspapers the same way.
    No we are not getting anywhere, you are dissembling. You in fact stated nothing before: "The sad irony of people who watch Fox news because they believe the other networks are biased--they actually believe they are getting a fair and balanced accounting of current events."

    In fact your entire stance is exactly the appeal to belief/spite you complain vacuously about. Which comes not at all as a shock to anyone thoughtful who has bothered reading most of your post across many threads since you arrived. The hackery is outweighed only by the hypocrisy with you and you are utterly inconsistent. As you argue about consistency, chuckle.

    You
    watch Fox News, you do so because you think/believe you are getting a fair and balanced accounting of events? No eh? Well then, you prognostication about "why" millions of other people watch Fox News is just so much "Appeal to Belief/Spite" and once again you are trapped in a conundrum of your own making. You frame your narrative to fit your outlook. See that is the problem with posters like you who labor with Fox Derangement Syndrome. In order to make your arguments about bias, you end up asking others what they mean by "bias" when you get caught in a causality loop. You start at broad sweeping generalizations, and then when you get challenged do you reply honestly and directly to the challenge or question? No, you spin like a top and then want to get "specific" about what you think "bias" is. In other words, you are the personification of an internet argument. I've always argued what is the bias argument worth? I've posed that question directly to you before; not that you could muster a response to it. Much as before, it is amazing how you could type so much yet not address anything I asked you or stated. You sir are far more impressed with your internet spin-dance than am I and to judge by responses at DP, many others seeking intellectually honest discourse. But then I actually know a thing or two about journalism and so called "media bias" whereas you are left spining in a rut crying, don't quote "conservative websites" or use WND, both themselves vacuous appeals to belief/spite, to quote your latest circular posing.

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    Re: Tea Party Movement Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right

    No group can overthrow the government by force, as things currently stand. Have you ever watched some of the SWAT teams on TV? Do you really want to try and attack those people? You would lose. No matter which group you happen to be associated with. Of course SWAT would be backed up by the Marines special ops.
    No, it really can't be done by force, unless, our money becomes worthless. In that scenario the Police and Military members would resign from their duties after a while. Thus ensuing chaos.

    Chaos would then start a civil war to see who would take the reins of power after value returned to the currency. Using history as a guide, the left would be the most likely group to start the "revolution" (as it would be called), or the civil war, which it would become in short order.

    So while people are stockpiling foods and weapons, I'm content to practice my grasp on the Spanish language. Civil wars are best viewed from the sidelines.

    P.S: This isn't a media bias thread.
    Last edited by d0gbreath; 02-17-10 at 11:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    Re: Tea Party Movement Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin View Post
    No we are not getting anywhere, you are dissembling. You in fact stated nothing before: "The sad irony of people who watch Fox news because they believe the other networks are biased--they actually believe they are getting a fair and balanced accounting of current events."
    Boy, I guess I really have to spell it out for you:

    Fox packages it's cable news channel as "Fair and Balanced" - Fact.

    The most popular programs on FNC are editorial/opinion programs - Fact.

    Editorial is not news - Fact.

    Calling editorial programing "fair and balanced" is ironic. - Fact.

    People who watch opinion shows and think they're getting news are sad and stupid - IMO.

    I believe you understood everything I said the first time around and only wish to bait and play silly little game of parsing and misstating what I said.
    I'm not even sure you've taken a side or made a point.

    I guess that's difficult when the conversation is over your head or you really having nothing to say and just want to attack...

    In fact your entire stance is exactly the appeal to belief/spite you complain vacuously about.
    Please see facts above should you continue to be confused about what constitutes a legitimate argument.

    BTW - I'm still waiting for you do post one fact.

    You[/B] watch Fox News, you do so because you think/believe you are getting a fair and balanced accounting of events?
    I stated that I watch FNC to get a conservative perspective on current evets.

    You continue to play your little game of putting words into my mouth and misstating what I said to create an argument you can attack.

    Pathetic. -- Anyone following the thread can see how desperately you continue to assemble your little straw friends.

    I've posed that question directly to you before; not that you could muster a response to it.
    Really, where?

    And if I had a dollar for every question of mine that you avoided --

    Much as before, it is amazing how you could type so much yet not address anything I asked you or stated.
    Projection. Were you ever going to take side or just parse and attack everything I post with weak straw men??

    The fine art of trolling -- you're determined to take it to a new level.

    But then I actually know a thing or two about journalism and so called "media bias"
    Really -- because I was working for Fox during the inception of FNC. I would love to hear about your journalistic background.

    Honestly, Sir L, are you taking a position or just parsing everything I say in a weak attempt to bait me (into what I can't imagine)?

    The way you keep calling me "Sir" -- are you acting out some weird fantasy?

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    Re: Tea Party Movement Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Boy, I guess I really have to spell it out for you:

    Fox packages it's cable news channel as "Fair and Balanced" - Fact.

    The most popular programs on FNC are editorial/opinion programs - Fact.

    Editorial is not news - Fact.

    Calling editorial programing "fair and balanced" is ironic. - Fact.

    People who watch opinion shows and think they're getting news are sad and stupid - IMO.

    I believe you understood everything I said the first time around and only wish to bait and play silly little game of parsing and misstating what I said.
    I'm not even sure you've taken a side or made a point.

    I guess that's difficult when the conversation is over your head or you really having nothing to say and just want to attack...
    Oh boo hoo you poor victim you, sorry but it is what it is. If you are going to bother going on a harangue about appeal to belief/spite, simultaneously doing exactly that, it what it is. Hypocritical and again, you have not really said anything but your usual anti Fox screed. You are real worked up about their slogan, so when you appeal to belief/spite it is OK in your book and you are incapable of admitting the obvious, yes that is quickly becoming a pattern with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Please see facts above should you continue to be confused about what constitutes a legitimate argument.
    Of course, never mind this is your answer to everyone you argue with here at DP. Only you, in post after post and thread after thread, know what constitutes a legitimate argument; you tell us so daily. How droll and how common.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    BTW - I'm still waiting for you do post one fact.
    Empty. You have not managed to address anything I've said to you so far, instead positing hypocritical lectures about your appeals to belief/spite. Observing you pose at wanting some kind of "facts" is pretty amusing though.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    I stated that I watch FNC to get a conservative perspective on current evets.
    Yes and according to your appeal to belief/spite, you alone watch Fox for those reasons, the other millions, do so because they are stupid and all the other claims you have made in this thread. Pretty dumb of you, and you know it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    You continue to play your little game of putting words into my mouth and misstating what I said to create an argument you can attack.
    Yawn. Poor you, poor victim of "attack!"

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Pathetic. -- Anyone following the thread can see how desperately you continue to assemble your little straw friends.
    Yawn, coming from the same guy whining about appeals to belief/spite and offering little else, yawn.


    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Really, where?

    And if I had a dollar for every question of mine that you avoided --



    Projection. Were you ever going to take side or just parse and attack everything I post with weak straw men??

    The fine art of trolling -- you're determined to take it to a new level.
    Coming from a poster who has managed to avoid everything I have asked you, this is just par for the course dissembling.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Really -- because I was working for Fox during the inception of FNC. I would love to hear about your journalistic background.
    Where you doing late night trash collection at a Fox satellite? You will pardon me, but you don't strike me as being too familiar with the tenants of journalism. Chuckle.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Honestly, Sir L, are you taking a position or just parsing everything I say in a weak attempt to bait me (into what I can't imagine)?

    The way you keep calling me "Sir" -- are you acting out some weird fantasy?
    Oh please don't bother throwing the word honesty into this thread, as a review of it does not actually play out as you pretend.

    I wonder how many post you are willing to just dodge and keep arguing, presenting your appeals to belief/spite and acting sincerely as if you are not doing exactly that. I bet quite a lot.
    Last edited by Sir Loin; 02-20-10 at 01:38 AM.

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    Re: Tea Party Movement Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    So please tell me, if you can answer the question, how do "your typical neighbors and colleagues" intend to use firearms to overthrow the government. Details please, we've all heard the bloviated threats and Jefferson quotes. If these are intelligent people, my "neighbors", what gives them encouragement that "rising up" with firearms will get them anything but arrested?
    I mean, really! We all know Bill Ayers, which was Obama best friend, tried to do that and wish he could do more to cause disaster.

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