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Thread: Secret Joint Raid Captures Talibanís Top Commander

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    Re: Secret Joint Raid Captures Talibanís Top Commander

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Moussaoui was indicted on December 11th 2001 and convicted in 2006 Reid was tried in October of 2002 and convicted in January of 2003. The Bush administration had ample time to try both in tribunals but decided to try them in Civilian courts.
    Ample time? This the same people arguing one year wasn't enough for Obama to decide fate of Gitmo detainees.

    Oh, the hypocrisy full score now huh?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Secret Joint Raid Captures Talibanís Top Commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Ample time? This the same people arguing one year wasn't enough for Obama to decide fate of Gitmo detainees.

    Oh, the hypocrisy full score now huh?
    "In an exhaustive study of terrorism prosecutions conducted by two former federal prosecutors for Human Rights First, the outcome of cases brought against 257 individuals charged in U.S. courts with a wide range of terrorism offenses was clear: They were convicted and put away, many of them for life. Of the 160 defendants whose cases were finished between Sept.12, 2001, and Dec. 31, 2007, the overwhelming majority—90 percent—were found guilty. Only about 9 percent of the cases were dismissed or ended in acquittal. The study, released last year, didn’t include in its count the most successful terrorism prosecutions of all: the far-reaching cases that federal prosecutors in New York won during the 1990s.

    In a series of spectacular trials, prosecutors convicted those charged in the first World Trade Center bombing and more. They put away terrorists who plotted to simultaneously blow up several U.S. jetliners flying over the Pacific. They broke up a sophisticated terrorist cell that had intended to unleash a day of horror in New York by bombing the United Nations building, the Lincoln and Holland tunnels, the George Washington Bridge and the main federal office building in Manhattan. In a trial that took place just before the 9/11 attacks, the government also convicted the conspirators who carried out the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Africa. "


    From this article.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Secret Joint Raid Captures Talibanís Top Commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Ample time? This the same people arguing one year wasn't enough for Obama to decide fate of Gitmo detainees.

    Oh, the hypocrisy full score now huh?
    Those werent the only terrorist prosecuted in Civilian courts during the Bush administration just the most visible. Theres a difference prosecuting several people at a time and hundreds of people some of whom you dont have enough to hold them on in the first place. When the government closed down Abu Ghraib and set many of the prisoners free they found out their record keeping system was a mess there. They had people they didnt know who they were or why they were even there.

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    Re: Secret Joint Raid Captures Talibanís Top Commander

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    The article mentions he is being held and interrogated by Pakistani intelligence, who have a reputation for world class torture. If you really believe the best intelligence is obtained through torture, you should be delighted.
    I didn't say anything about torture, did I? If they can extract actionable intel using other methods then that's perfectly fine with me; I'm just not going to take the torture option off the table; if they can save even one American life by torturing that worm then I'm all for it. That warlord knew what he was getting himself into when he went to war with us. He would have no qualms about torturing you or anyone you love if it meant gaining an advantage over America; he has wantonly disregard the laws of war, which means he is not entitled to their protection.

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    Re: Secret Joint Raid Captures Talibanís Top Commander

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    "In an exhaustive study of terrorism prosecutions conducted by two former federal prosecutors for Human Rights First, the outcome of cases brought against 257 individuals charged in U.S. courts with a wide range of terrorism offenses was clear.
    Timmy McVeigh one of these 257 individuals and my first example shows why this argument is irrelevant. Not captured abroad by our military, many were probably US citizens who do belong in civilian courts.

    We are speaking about non US citizens not afforded rights captured by our military or obviously having information vital to US national interests.

    And it's interesting you'd speak to the 257...and not acknowledge the KSM trial being considered in the US. This decison to try this Cat in civilian court comes directly after Obama's decision to suspend military tribunals, comes after his broken promise at Gitmo leaving these detainee's fates undecided, and comes after he's suggested we give KSM a civilan trial.

    And then to think Obama also decided to send some of these detainees to military commissions while giving KSM civilian trials proves he's winging it.

    Why not simply admit it, D? This was a class A bone up. This man should have been interogated immediately and by trained interrogators, not mirandized like a common criminal. The excuse making for this inept comander in Chief isn't necessary nor sound.
    Last edited by Charles Martel; 02-16-10 at 11:40 PM.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Secret Joint Raid Captures Talibanís Top Commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Timmy McVeigh one of these 257 individuals and my first example shows why this argument is irrelevant. Not captured abroad by our military, many were probably US citizens who do belong in civilian courts.

    We are speaking about non US citizens not afforded rights captured by our military or obviously having information vital to US national interests.

    And it's interesting you'd speak to the 257...and not acknowledge the KSM trial being considered in the US. This decison to try this Cat in civilian court comes directly after Obama's decision to suspend military tribunals, comes after his broken promise at Gitmo leaving these detainee's fates undecided, and comes after he's suggested we give KSM a civilan trial.

    And then to think Obama also decided to send some of these detainees to military commissions while giving KSM civilian trials proves he's winging it.

    Why not simply admit it, D? This was a class A bone up. This man should have been interogated immediately and by trained interrogators, not mirandized like a common criminal. The excuse making for this inept comander in Chief isn't necessary nor sound.
    No many were not us citizens. We have over a hundred international terrorists in our jails. Many of those that were going to be tried in civilian courts were captured overseas not by the military and not on the battleground. Keep moving those goalposts none of this is unprecedented as you claim.

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    Re: Secret Joint Raid Captures Talibanís Top Commander

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    No many were not us citizens. We have over a hundred international terrorists in our jails. Many of those that were going to be tried in civilian courts were captured overseas not by the military and not on the battleground. Keep moving those goalposts none of this is unprecedented as you claim.
    You're being disingenuous again. Many are US citizens. The international "terrorists" you speak to are not engaged in a current and deadly ongoing jihad.

    Military Tribunals are set up and operational. President Obama.....blew this incident. This Cat should not have been mirandized and given a lawyer P and we both know it.

    This man isn't being interrogated in a vacuum, the "terrorists" you name above aren't jihadists, do not have information we need to keep troops or agents alive. And it's all happening under the umbrella of this idiotic idea to have civilian trials for the worst of the worst while sending others to military tribunals.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Secret Joint Raid Captures Talibanís Top Commander

    Pogue, what is your suggestion for this Talian Commander?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

  9. #69
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    Re: Secret Joint Raid Captures Talibanís Top Commander

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Which supreme court ruling was that? Name the case. The Bush administration had ample time to set up the tribunals before trying the 20th hijacker and Richard Reid.
    Your lack of knowledge is showing again. Once Bush made the executive order it was in court until 2006. He couldn't use it

    The supreme court didnt reject the tribunals until 2006 in Hamdan v Rumsfeld. Bush gave the military order on Nov 13 2001 to set up the tribunals.
    And you somehow can't connect the dots that he couldn't use it because it was going through the court system?

    Moussaoui was indicted on December 11th 2001 and convicted in 2006 Reid was tried in October of 2002 and convicted in January of 2003. The Bush administration had ample time to try both in tribunals but decided to try them in Civilian courts.
    Once again you fail to understand the history or how the court system works.

    Do you even know it was the Senate AFTER the 2006 court case that legalized military tribunals?

    No one was even tried in a military tribunal until the summer of 08. History is your friend.
    Last edited by texmaster; 02-17-10 at 07:46 AM.
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    Re: Secret Joint Raid Captures Talibanís Top Commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    That's good news!
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    That's awesome news!

    Go U.S.A!!!
    I really wanted to react like these two when I saw it, and those are my general feelings. However I mostly just feel sick to my stomach and disgusted with politics in this country reading Tex, Haz, Will, and American's bloviating hyper partisanship when it comes to this entire thing.

    Shh, don't concentrate on the efforts made by actual hardworking men and women of this country to get this guy. We need to argue about whether it was great by Obama or in spite of Obama.

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