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Utah Considers Cutting 12th Grade - Altogether

That's one way to balance the education budget, cut back the number of years of free education. Maybe cutting the number of school days per year would help, too.

Then, we could find out that ignorance really is a lot more expensive than schooling.
Very interesting coming from a libertarian. I would think you'd find other options to make up the difference like home schooling.
 
Utah Considers Cutting 12th Grade - Altogether // Current





I think it's a good idea, a lot of time is wasted in senior year doing fun and not necessarily educational stuff.

You mean like taking AP courses and exams?

Taking honors courses while making University application and transcript deadlines.

Writing college admissions personal essays, and getting teacher recommendations...

Taking U.S. Government and Economics...(in Californian, these are required of all 12th Graders)

Doing community service projects.

Senior year is usually critical to those looking for a scholarship--athletic, performing arts.

Utah has their collective head up their ass.
 
You mean like taking AP courses and exams?
Is this what the majority of students take?

Taking honors courses while making University application and transcript deadlines.
Applications are done at home.
Writing college admissions personal essays, and getting teacher recommendations...
Done at home.
Taking U.S. Government and Economics...(in Californian, these are required of all 12th Graders)
Isn't working for California.
Doing community service projects.
Done outside of school.
Senior year is usually critical to those looking for a scholarship--athletic, performing arts.
Not done during school hours anyway.
Utah has their collective head up their ass.
Like Californians?
 
Being that we are falling behind on education compared to most other modern industrialized nations, perhaps instead of doing away with the 12 grade to save a buck, why don't we keep seniors busy and challenged academically through the 12th grade.

I would suspect that most people behind doing away with the 12th grade are those that disagree with the entire notion of a public education system. Of course in that case, its not out of pragmatism, but rather some irrational opposition to all things government. I really think it should just be diagnosed as a phobia and treated for lunacy that it is. Nations that don't have a public education system are not exactly a paradise. In fact, they are pretty much all 3rd world **** holes.

For the extreme libertarians, the idea is not to just do away with the 12th Grade, its to do away with the entire public school system. You see it will start with this, and then they will just say "well if you want to go through the 12th grade they can just charge you a fee for it" and then on down the tubes with the whole thing.
Get alarmed much?
 
Why not encourage homeschooling? Statistics say home schoolers are better educated and plus it costs the state nothing. Schools have become nothing but a center for undisciplined teens to do everything but school. I blame the culture and the education system. Self discipline is on the decline, and without that we are going to fail in many more areas than education.

Home schoolers are statistically only better educated than inner city schools or other failing public schools. Suburban Public Schools by and large blow home schoolers out of the water.

For example, the average ACT scores for home schoolers is 22.8.

The average ACT scores for our kids public school district is 25.1

The average SAT scores for home schoolers is 568 Verbal, 554 Math.

The average SAT scores for our kids public school district is 600 Verbal, 606 Math.
 
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Is this what the majority of students take?

If you're looking to go to a UC school, Yes.

I can't speak for other states.

California high schools in middle and upper income districts have become ultra-competitive. Even CSU's are more difficult to get in to.

Applications are done at home.
Done at home.

Um... Which would cut into the 2-3 hours of homework you have a night if you're taking the classes that will qualify you for admission to a college or university...


Isn't working for California.

You want to back that up with something or are you just doing that talking out of your ass thing again?

Done outside of school.

Again, the point seems to have gone right over your head -- 12th Grade service projects are usually done in the summer/fall of 12 Grade... If you stop going to high school after 11th Grade...??


Not done during school hours anyway.

So, high school athletics and performing arts are not done (practiced) at the high school during 6th Period?

Do you EVER think before opening your mouth?:hammer:
 
Do you really believe that 1 year less of high school equals ignorance?

I had to take and pass my graduation exams in 11th grade.
If I pass them then what was the point of 12th grade?

Well if we continue to pay governors and other state representatives more than they're worth while they cut funding for education just so they can vote themselves cost of living raises what's the point in having government in the first place?
 
I screwed around a lot between 9-11th grade, enough to put me behind a year and a half(in credits) but I still passed my graduation test in 11th grade.

If you can pass the graduation test, you should be able to move on.

I agree -- depending on you goals in life.

But there are some real-world college requirements that most people can't make in 3 years.
 
Comparing a country with no real history of education with one that does have a history of some real form of education does not make a good argument.

United States ≠ 3rd world country

And just to stop you short, we weren't a 3rd world country before we had government schools.




United States ≠ 3rd world country yet. We're working on it, and one of the problems is that our education system is behind that of many other countries.

BTW, just how long do you think we've had "government" schools in this country? Try looking up the "Old Deluder Satan Act" and see.

Say, Goldenboy219, did you end up going to college? Was it purely atheletic, or were there some academics also?

I would have thought your high school English class would have addressed the difference between went and gone. Maybe it did, and you weren't listening. lol
 
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Very interesting coming from a libertarian. I would think you'd find other options to make up the difference like home schooling.

Some things have to be done collectively, i.e., by the government. Education is one of them. The Libertarian in me would close the federal Department of Education, but the states need to provide public education.
 
Why not encourage homeschooling? Statistics say home schoolers are better educated and plus it costs the state nothing. Schools have become nothing but a center for undisciplined teens to do everything but school. I blame the culture and the education system. Self discipline is on the decline, and without that we are going to fail in many more areas than education.

Homeschooling is a bad idea because not every parent can provide the education needed to children, especially high school seniors who are making the transition to college or university.
 
Some things have to be done collectively, i.e., by the government. Education is one of them. The Libertarian in me would close the federal Department of Education, but the states need to provide public education.

I would never close the federal Department of Education. Instead, I would retask it to coordinate administration among the states. By that, I mean grading systems and computer programs. This is to make it easier for teachers to track the progress made by students who have to move from one district to another or from one state to another.
 
To the original post, I do not think cutting the 12th grade would be a good idea. My senior year was the year I realized my love for literature and helped me to hone my critical reading skills and develop my writing skills. It was the year that convinced me to study literature and learn how writers write. It was a pretty important year for me, and I wouldn't want to take that away from any student.
 
United States ≠ 3rd world country yet. We're working on it, and one of the problems is that our education system is behind that of many other countries.

That's mostly because everyone keeps holding on to these arcane ideas that everyone must go to a single school with a fix curriculum.

Teacher pay in the U.S. is at the very least on par or better than other countries that are surpassing us.
So it's not anything other than parents and the inflexibility of our schools.

BTW, just how long do you think we've had "government" schools in this country? Try looking up the "Old Deluder Satan Act" and see.

"It held parents and masters responsible for their children's and apprentices' ability to read and write, stressing education rather than schooling. However, its implementation appears to have been somewhat neglected."

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_School_Laws]Massachusetts School Laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


The sounds fine to me, in fact I agree with it.
It doesn't require kids to attend government schools but requires that parents must teach their kids to read and write.

I can get behind that.
 
That's mostly because everyone keeps holding on to these arcane ideas that everyone must go to a single school with a fix curriculum.

Teacher pay in the U.S. is at the very least on par or better than other countries that are surpassing us.
So it's not anything other than parents and the inflexibility of our schools.



"It held parents and masters responsible for their children's and apprentices' ability to read and write, stressing education rather than schooling. However, its implementation appears to have been somewhat neglected."

Massachusetts School Laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The sounds fine to me, in fact I agree with it.
It doesn't require kids to attend government schools but requires that parents must teach their kids to read and write.

I can get behind that.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_School_Laws"]Good. There's more:[/ame]

The 1647 legislation specifically framed ignorance as a Satanic ill to be circumvented through the education of the country's young people. It required every town having more than 50 families to hire a teacher, and every town of more than 100 families to establish a "grammar school". Failure to comply with the mandate would result in a fine of £5.

The most famous by far is the law of 1647, also known as the Old Deluder Satan Law (after the law's first sentence) and The General School Law of 1647. They are commonly regarded as the historical first step toward compulsory government-directed public education in the United States of America.

Sending kids to "government" schools is nothing new.
 
Somehow, the cartoons thread reminded me of this one:

Calvinandhobbes.jpg
 
One politician proposed it, the rest of them will NOT follow. There is a lot of speculation going on in this thread that is a waste of time.
 
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