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Thread: Utah Considers Cutting 12th Grade - Altogether

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    Re: Utah Considers Cutting 12th Grade - Altogether

    Being that we are falling behind on education compared to most other modern industrialized nations, perhaps instead of doing away with the 12 grade to save a buck, why don't we keep seniors busy and challenged academically through the 12th grade.

    I would suspect that most people behind doing away with the 12th grade are those that disagree with the entire notion of a public education system. Of course in that case, its not out of pragmatism, but rather some irrational opposition to all things government. I really think it should just be diagnosed as a phobia and treated for lunacy that it is. Nations that don't have a public education system are not exactly a paradise. In fact, they are pretty much all 3rd world **** holes.

    For the extreme libertarians, the idea is not to just do away with the 12th Grade, its to do away with the entire public school system. You see it will start with this, and then they will just say "well if you want to go through the 12th grade they can just charge you a fee for it" and then on down the tubes with the whole thing.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 02-15-10 at 11:39 PM.
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    Re: Utah Considers Cutting 12th Grade - Altogether

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Being that we are falling behind on education compared to most other modern industrialized nations, perhaps instead of doing away with the 12 grade to save a buck, why don't we keep seniors busy and challenged academically through the 12th grade.

    I would suspect that most people behind doing away with the 12th grade are those that disagree with the entire notion of a public education system. Of course in that case, its not out of pragmatism, but rather some irrational opposition to all things government. I really think it should just be diagnosed as a phobia and treated for lunacy that it is. Nations that don't have a public education system are not exactly a paradise. In fact, they are pretty much all 3rd world **** holes.

    For the extreme libertarians, the idea is not to just do away with the 12th Grade, its to do away with the entire public school system. You see it will start with this, and then they will just say "well if you want to go through the 12th grade they can just charge you a fee for it" and then on down the tubes with the whole thing.
    Comparing a country with no real history of education with one that does have a history of some real form of education does not make a good argument.

    United States ≠ 3rd world country

    And just to stop you short, we weren't a 3rd world country before we had government schools.
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    Re: Utah Considers Cutting 12th Grade - Altogether

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    In football many kids work hard to graduate early from school(in Jan.) so they can get on campus on their university for spring football practice.
    Without athletics, i would never have went to college. Not because of ability, more or less due to desire.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Utah Considers Cutting 12th Grade - Altogether

    With a youth today whose social interaction is 90 percent through texting and internet, I say they desperately need the social interaction.

    It is scary just how socially inept young people are today. You say hi to them and they look like they want to dive for cover.

  5. #25
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    Re: Utah Considers Cutting 12th Grade - Altogether

    Why not encourage homeschooling? Statistics say home schoolers are better educated and plus it costs the state nothing. Schools have become nothing but a center for undisciplined teens to do everything but school. I blame the culture and the education system. Self discipline is on the decline, and without that we are going to fail in many more areas than education.

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    Re: Utah Considers Cutting 12th Grade - Altogether

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That's one way to balance the education budget, cut back the number of years of free education. Maybe cutting the number of school days per year would help, too.

    Then, we could find out that ignorance really is a lot more expensive than schooling.
    Very interesting coming from a libertarian. I would think you'd find other options to make up the difference like home schooling.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Utah Considers Cutting 12th Grade - Altogether

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Utah Considers Cutting 12th Grade - Altogether // Current





    I think it's a good idea, a lot of time is wasted in senior year doing fun and not necessarily educational stuff.
    You mean like taking AP courses and exams?

    Taking honors courses while making University application and transcript deadlines.

    Writing college admissions personal essays, and getting teacher recommendations...

    Taking U.S. Government and Economics...(in Californian, these are required of all 12th Graders)

    Doing community service projects.

    Senior year is usually critical to those looking for a scholarship--athletic, performing arts.

    Utah has their collective head up their ass.

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    Re: Utah Considers Cutting 12th Grade - Altogether

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    You mean like taking AP courses and exams?
    Is this what the majority of students take?

    Taking honors courses while making University application and transcript deadlines.
    Applications are done at home.
    Writing college admissions personal essays, and getting teacher recommendations...
    Done at home.
    Taking U.S. Government and Economics...(in Californian, these are required of all 12th Graders)
    Isn't working for California.
    Doing community service projects.
    Done outside of school.
    Senior year is usually critical to those looking for a scholarship--athletic, performing arts.
    Not done during school hours anyway.
    Utah has their collective head up their ass.
    Like Californians?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Utah Considers Cutting 12th Grade - Altogether

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Being that we are falling behind on education compared to most other modern industrialized nations, perhaps instead of doing away with the 12 grade to save a buck, why don't we keep seniors busy and challenged academically through the 12th grade.

    I would suspect that most people behind doing away with the 12th grade are those that disagree with the entire notion of a public education system. Of course in that case, its not out of pragmatism, but rather some irrational opposition to all things government. I really think it should just be diagnosed as a phobia and treated for lunacy that it is. Nations that don't have a public education system are not exactly a paradise. In fact, they are pretty much all 3rd world **** holes.

    For the extreme libertarians, the idea is not to just do away with the 12th Grade, its to do away with the entire public school system. You see it will start with this, and then they will just say "well if you want to go through the 12th grade they can just charge you a fee for it" and then on down the tubes with the whole thing.
    Get alarmed much?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #30
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    Re: Utah Considers Cutting 12th Grade - Altogether

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Why not encourage homeschooling? Statistics say home schoolers are better educated and plus it costs the state nothing. Schools have become nothing but a center for undisciplined teens to do everything but school. I blame the culture and the education system. Self discipline is on the decline, and without that we are going to fail in many more areas than education.
    Home schoolers are statistically only better educated than inner city schools or other failing public schools. Suburban Public Schools by and large blow home schoolers out of the water.

    For example, the average ACT scores for home schoolers is 22.8.

    The average ACT scores for our kids public school district is 25.1

    The average SAT scores for home schoolers is 568 Verbal, 554 Math.

    The average SAT scores for our kids public school district is 600 Verbal, 606 Math.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 02-16-10 at 01:16 PM.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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