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Women say some rape victims should take blame - survey

Jerry said:
You know..if you see an injured animal, you don't provoke it.

If you provoke it, and you get attacked, yes, it's your ****ing fault.

You don't put your fingers in the fence, non of that.

It may not be 100% your fault, but you should have realized the danger and known better. Sometimes you just get attacked and there's nothing you can do, but there's also assholes who poke injured dogs with a stick.
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I strongly disagree. You can't compare rape to a dog biting when provoked with a stick. Dogs have no sense of right and wrong. Humans do.

You can make this comparison all you want, but should you ever choose to act on it, that is, forcing the woman to have sex, after she said no (and I don't give a damn how much she teased you beforehand), then you have committed rape, and deserve to go to prison for a long time.
 
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TheGirlNextDoor said:
Uh, no. I disagree.

As a responsible teenage girl, you can go out on date with a boy you've known for years. He's driving, goes somewhere OTHER than what he'd told you previously and proceeds to overpower you and rape you.

You scream for him to stop, no, bite, scratch and kick. Nothing stops him and in fact, this seems to drive him further and further past the point of rationality.

He finishes, takes the responsible teenage girl home.

So. This is her fault as well as his?

I don't think so.
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As best I can tell from reading this thread, according to some it is her fault since she did not know he was a scumbag, and did not carry a gun with her.
 
there is not justification for rape, period.----but women need to remember rapist are out there, and be on your toes. It's been like this forever. Trust no one, is all I know. ---When dating In High School, the Gals folks would take down my drivers license number, and the dad would show me his shotgun, then tell me what time he wanted, "the most important thing in his life home, safe and sound"---I was never one minute late. which is why I'm here today, to tell this tale. Find rapist, and kill them. Problem solved.
 
Skateguy said:
there is not justification for rape, period.----but women need to remember rapist are out there, and be on your toes. It's been like this forever. Trust no one, is all I know. ---When dating In High School, the Gals folks would take down my drivers license number, and the dad would show me his shotgun, then tell me what time he wanted, "the most important thing in his life home, safe and sound"---I was never one minute late. which is why I'm here today, to tell this tale. Find rapist, and kill them. Problem solved.
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When I was younger, women where taught that every man is a potential rapist. It was a stupid idea though, as it encouraged women to live in a state of perpetual fear. At some point, you have to accept that there is a certain amount of risk inherent in everything you do, from getting out of bed, to driving to work, all through the day, and just get over it. Does not mean to be stupid, but worrying that every guy might, maybe, be a rapist is not a healthy way to live.
 
TheGirlNextDoor said:
Uh, no. I disagree.

As a responsible teenage girl, you can go out on date with a boy you've known for years. He's driving, goes somewhere OTHER than what he'd told you previously and proceeds to overpower you and rape you.

You scream for him to stop, no, bite, scratch and kick. Nothing stops him and in fact, this seems to drive him further and further past the point of rationality.

He finishes, takes the responsible teenage girl home.

So. This is her fault as well as his?

I don't think so.
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How does that have anything to do with what I said?
 
Skateguy said:
there is not justification for rape, period.----but women need to remember rapist are out there, and be on your toes. It's been like this forever. Trust no one, is all I know. ---When dating In High School, the Gals folks would take down my drivers license number, and the dad would show me his shotgun, then tell me what time he wanted, "the most important thing in his life home, safe and sound"---I was never one minute late. which is why I'm here today, to tell this tale. Find rapist, and kill them. Problem solved.
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Seriously though... take down his license number?

Do you know the number of rapes that occur not from total strangers or people a woman is vaguely familiar with - but people she knows.

KNOWS.

Not some dillhole that wanders in off the street. No some punk kid who happens to meet her at the mall and asks her out... most rapes are committed by men the women ALREADY KNOW.

Honest to Pete... I don't know how we became such a backward society to think that a victim of ANY crime is somehow to blame for being a victim.

Rape isn't about sex.. it's about power. It's about taking something from someone because you can.
 
Skateguy said:
there is not justification for rape, period.----but women need to remember rapist are out there, and be on your toes. It's been like this forever. Trust no one, is all I know. ---When dating In High School, the Gals folks would take down my drivers license number, and the dad would show me his shotgun, then tell me what time he wanted, "the most important thing in his life home, safe and sound"---I was never one minute late. which is why I'm here today, to tell this tale. Find rapist, and kill them. Problem solved.
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What about a husband raping his wife?
 
danarhea said:
I strongly disagree.
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Then you're wrong :2wave:

danarhea said:
You can't compare rape to a dog biting when provoked with a stick.
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I just did :2wave:

danarhea said:
Dogs have no sense of right and wrong.
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That alone is highly debatable.

danarhea said:
Humans do.
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Rapists don't.

danarhea said:
You can make this comparison all you want, but should you ever choose to act on it, that is, forcing the woman to have sex, after she said no...
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Yeah I was never talking about what the guy should or should not do. Wtf are talking about?

danarhea said:
(and I don't give a damn how much she teased you beforehand)
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Then you don't care about women.

danarhea said:
then you have committed rape, and deserve to go to prison for a long time.
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Blah blah blah etc etc and all that jaz....nothing to do with anything I said, but I hope you feel better.
 
Jerry said:
How does that have anything to do with what I said?
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You were responding to this:

Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
There is never any excuse for rape and there is no such thing as asking for it.
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By stating this:

If you're being irresponsible, you're asking for **** to happen to you, and when it does it will be partially your fault.
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So how does a teenage girl getting raped "asking for it".

You responded directly to Councilman's assertation that, "There is never any excuse for rape and there is no such thing as asking for it."

Did you mean to reply with something else?
 
Redress said:
As best I can tell from reading this thread, according to some it is her fault since she did not know he was a scumbag, and did not carry a gun with her.
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That certainly wasn't what I was saying, if you inferred that from what I wrote.

I specifically said that rape is not excusable in any situation but pretending that you can't prevent it in some reasonable ways is stupid.
Know where your going and know the person your with, even then that isn't fool proof but it's important.
 
TheGirlNextDoor said:
You were responding to this:



By stating this:



So how does a teenage girl getting raped "asking for it".

You responded directly to Councilman's assertation that, "There is never any excuse for rape and there is no such thing as asking for it."

Did you mean to reply with something else?
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Since nothing I said had anything to do with excusing rape, it's completely obvious to any reasonable person of average intelligence that I was responding to "there is no such thing as asking for it".

Yes there is such a thing as asking for it.

There is never an excuse for rape and there is such a thing as asking to be raped.
 
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Harry Guerrilla said:
That certainly wasn't what I was saying, if you inferred that from what I wrote.

I specifically said that rape is not excusable in any situation but pretending that you can't prevent it in some reasonable ways is stupid.
Know where your going and know the person your with, even then that isn't fool proof but it's important.
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I exaggerated, and probably should not have. The problem is that what you are saying is not even remotely effective. Rape can occur almost any time, any place. I lead a quiet life in a small town, but there are times when I have to be in areas I do not know, and around people I don't know.
 
Redress said:
I exaggerated, and probably should not have. The problem is that what you are saying is not even remotely effective. Rape can occur almost any time, any place. I lead a quiet life in a small town, but there are times when I have to be in areas I do not know, and around people I don't know.
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Of course, that's why it isn't fool proof.

On the other hand, there are times when you can do yourself a favor and look out for potential dangerous people/places.

Even being a guy, I have almost **** myself with fear because I was definitely in the wrong place when I knew better.

Case in point, when I was 15 I used to sneak out of my house and go hang out with friends in remote places to smoke weed, etc.
A grown man approaches me and asks if he can blow me, I say no and wait for him to leave and run like hell.

I was trapped at that particular place and could of been raped because I was stupid as hell.
 
TheGirlNextDoor said:
Seriously though... take down his license number?

Do you know the number of rapes that occur not from total strangers or people a woman is vaguely familiar with - but people she knows.

KNOWS.

Not some dillhole that wanders in off the street. No some punk kid who happens to meet her at the mall and asks her out... most rapes are committed by men the women ALREADY KNOW.

Honest to Pete... I don't know how we became such a backward society to think that a victim of ANY crime is somehow to blame for being a victim.

Rape isn't about sex.. it's about power. It's about taking something from someone because you can.
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Most happen from friends or family members.---Now about provocative dress. Guys are visually stimulated. They relate to a womens dress as her way of stating her intentions. If they dress to look like they are ready for a Quicky under the bleachers, then the dumb guy thinks that is what she wants. doesn't make it right, but guys minds don't work like Gals minds.---Be free and express yourself, but be aware of how your signals are being taken by guys. If you wave a red flag at a bull, don't be surprised if he rams you.
 
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Harry Guerrilla said:
Of course, that's why it isn't fool proof.

On the other hand, there are times when you can do yourself a favor and look out for potential dangerous people/places.

Even being a guy, I have almost **** myself with fear because I was definitely in the wrong place when I knew better.

Case in point, when I was 15 I used to sneak out of my house and go hang out with friends in remote places to smoke weed, etc.
A grown man approaches me and asks if he can blow me, I say no and wait for him to leave and run like hell.

I was trapped at that particular place and could of been raped because I was stupid as hell.
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Oh no you must be anti-men to think you hold some level or responsibility for your own safty :roll:
 
Jerry said:
Oh no you must be anti-men to think you hold some level or responsibility for your own safty :roll:
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I was seriously stupid for doing it but I wouldn't characterize it as "asking for it."

More like I made myself an easy target and of course it wouldn't excuse the guy of doing whatever he did.

That was probably one of the few times I was seriously scared beyond belief.
To add, the guy pulled out his junk and started playing with it as he walked away. :shock:
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Of course, that's why it isn't fool proof.

On the other hand, there are times when you can do yourself a favor and look out for potential dangerous people/places.

Even being a guy, I have almost **** myself with fear because I was definitely in the wrong place when I knew better.

Case in point, when I was 15 I used to sneak out of my house and go hang out with friends in remote places to smoke weed, etc.
A grown man approaches me and asks if he can blow me, I say no and wait for him to leave and run like hell.

I was trapped at that particular place and could of been raped because I was stupid as hell.
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My point being, how often do people put themselves in "risky situations", and how often are they just the nature of things. I used to work second shift in a bad part of Grand Rapids. The place had a large first shift, small second, and shift change was staggered, so only a couple people left at a time. Big, dark parking lot. So 5 to 6 nights a week, I was alone or nearly so in a dark parking lot in a bad part of town.

Simply saying "be careful", while not bad advice, is just kinda unrealistic. Yes, people should be somewhat careful, obviously. It's just not a solution, and not going to stop rape.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I was seriously stupid for doing it but I wouldn't characterize it as "asking for it."

More like I made myself an easy target and of course it wouldn't excuse the guy of doing whatever he did.

That was probably one of the few times I was seriously scared beyond belief.
To add, the guy pulled out his junk and started playing with it as he walked away. :shock:
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Yeah, I would...being that age, out that late, smoking pot on some secret location...yeah, you were asking for trouble of some kind.
 
Redress said:
My point being, how often do people put themselves in "risky situations", and how often are they just the nature of things. I used to work second shift in a bad part of Grand Rapids. The place had a large first shift, small second, and shift change was staggered, so only a couple people left at a time. Big, dark parking lot. So 5 to 6 nights a week, I was alone or nearly so in a dark parking lot in a bad part of town.
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That's definitely a time to pack some heat or at least a knife or can of mace but your right.
There is no absolute way to prevent it, in that place it's best to be very observant.


Redress said:
Simply saying "be careful", while not bad advice, is just kinda unrealistic. Yes, people should be somewhat careful, obviously. It's just not a solution, and not going to stop rape.
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I honestly don't think anything will stop it, which sucks.
You're the best defense 99% of the time.
 
Jerry said:
Yeah, I would...being that age, out that late, smoking pot on some secret location...yeah, you were asking for trouble of some kind.
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We weren't asking for it but certainly made it easy for someone to take advantage of us.
That's the reason it was secret/secluded, to defer any threat of legal/parent trouble.
 
The biggest problem we have in the UK is to get women to report rape.

Any hurdle that is put in the way of reporting rape is wrong.

Thankfully prostitutes can say no and their rapists are prosecuted , even though they are asking for it.
 
iangb said:
I was just talking about this with a friend.

My guess, as poorly-thought-out as it is, would be that some women put blame partially on the victim because it's preferable for them to think that all a woman has to do to avoid being raped is to avoid making the mistakes/choices that the victim has made. To accept that the victim is just unlucky is to accept that they could be equally as unlucky, which is a scary prospect for anyone.

It's easier to think "She acted stupid, I wouldn't make that mistake" than "She was in the wrong place at the wrong time, I could be unlucky too". The illusion that a woman chooses to get herself into a situation where she will be raped unfortunately gives the comfort that others could avoid it simply by making different choices in the same situation.

The person to blame in a rape is the rapist. In the end, they made the choice.

EDIT: Yes, the occasional exception to the contrary.
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You have just made an outstanding and accurate psychological assessment of why the survey turned out the way it did. Good job. :2wave:
 
liblady said:
i think men should be outraged by this assumption. it implies that men are unable to control themselves.
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No, it doesn't. It doesn't address the process behind men's actions at all.
 
Jerry said:
Uhh you haven't given any information there bud, just a little grandstanding is all :2razz:
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No, Jerry, I've read the thread. You have presented a whole mess of non-logic. The animal analogy, for example. Completely illogical. Animals are instinctual and do not have the ability to reason in the way that a human would. If you poke an animal it will bite... instinctively. If you poke a human it will assess the situation and decide, based on MANY factors whether or not it will respond, and how it will respond. This is just an example of the lack of logic in your argument. Like I said, either you have presented a complete lack of knowledge on this topic, or this is one of your failed "thought experiments". Either way, your argument is illogical, either by design or by lack of information.
 
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