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Thread: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

  1. #61
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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Agreed! The government busy bodies have no right to tell us how to live our own lives and make decisions for us!

    Uh, you are talking about abortion, gay marriage and prayer in schools, right?
    As well, it's not right v. left with me. I think that the government should only intervene in gay marriage as far as protecting a particular religion choosing whether or not to perform a ceremony(as is their right) however licensing should only apply to civil unions and sanctified marriage should be recognized for benefits(either or, both protected). Prayer in schools is tricky, it should be voluntary and the decision of that particular community. Abortion is something I disagree with, but would defer to the states as would be more proper.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Communities have the right to self-determination. Only not to the extent that individual self-determination becomes impossible.

    Outlawing or making the punitive tax unaffordable for regular use among the middle income bracket of the community is the only unconstitutional encroachment.
    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    I would agree if the meat was getting an extra tax, but as it stands right now it is just the name of the day.
    I think the point we are missing is it is not the elected authorities business to advocate for a lifestyle choice as far as diet or lifestyle choices go, it is not my councilman's nor any other representatives business in how I choose to live as long as it does not immediately pose a threat to the rights of others.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #63
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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    As well, it's not right v. left with me. I think that the government should only intervene in gay marriage as far as protecting a particular religion choosing whether or not to perform a ceremony(as is their right) however licensing should only apply to civil unions and sanctified marriage should be recognized for benefits(either or, both protected). Prayer in schools is tricky, it should be voluntary and the decision of that particular community. Abortion is something I disagree with, but would defer to the states as would be more proper.
    So you think local communities should decide certain personal issues -- but not others (such as a healty diet)?

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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I think the point we are missing is it is not the elected authorities business to advocate for a lifestyle choice as far as diet or lifestyle choices go, it is not my councilman's nor any other representatives business in how I choose to live as long as it does not immediately pose a threat to the rights of others.
    OK that makes sense. Do you think this particular law in Cambridge does that?

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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    So you think local communities should decide certain personal issues -- but not others (such as a healty diet)?
    No, but they have been protected in very limited instances by the court, I think it was a bad decision but until it's revisited we are stuck with it.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    OK that makes sense. Do you think this particular law in Cambridge does that?
    Absolutely, it's no different than giving preferential treatment to a carpool for political purposes(planning in a massive city for congestion being the exception), or certain social initiatives to entice people to do things they normally would be opposed to. In this instance I see an attempt to use coercive social pressure, which is probably my least favorite social(edit-social=political) tactic.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 02-25-10 at 05:14 PM.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    No, but they have been protected in very limited instances by the court, I think it was a bad decision but until it's revisited we are stuck with it.
    OK fine, got it!

    I have no problem with people arguing against this because they disagree with it. What I take exception to are people who see this as something unconstitutional or an abuse of power or something. That's just silly.

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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    It looks like the religious zealots in the man made global warming fairy tale religion are running amok.


    FOXNews.com - Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Going green will not be optional in Cambridge, Mass., if the Cambridge Climate Congress has its way. It will be mandatory.

    There will be congestion pricing to reduce car travel. Curbside parking will be eliminated. There will be a carbon tax "of some kind," not to mention taxes on plastic and paper bags. And the Massachusetts city, home of Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, will advocate vegetarianism and veganism, complete with "Meatless or Vegan Mondays."

    Those are just some of the proposals put forth by the Congress, which was created in May 2009 to respond to the "climate emergency" plaguing Cambridge. Once the Congress settles on its recommendations, they will submitted to the City Council.

    "This emergency is created by the growth of local greenhouse gas emissions despite the urgent warnings of climate scientists that substantial reductions are needed in order to reduce the risk of disastrous changes to our climate," the Climate Congress reported in proposals issued on Jan. 23. "This proposal is made in the belief that an effective local response is, if anything, made more urgent by so far inadequate global agreements and federal policies for emissions reductions. It is made in the belief that our City should lead by example."

    http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/..._cambridge.pdf

    While the group's proposals remain a work in a progress, some experts say the potential measures it advocates are "heavy-handed" and incongruous. But others say the city just might be onto something, particularly if the taxes associated with the plan are used to make buildings and transportation more efficient.

    Dr. Ken Green, a resident scholar on environment and energy at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative Washington-based think tank, said he found an "overall redundancy" in the proposals, specifically regarding a carbon-based tax coupled with congestion pricing, increased parking meter rates and parking tickets.

    "That's just a revenue-raiser for the city," said Green. "There's an overall incoherence of having a carbon tax and three or four indirect taxes."

    To best reduce emissions in the near-term, Green suggested a revenue-neutral carbon tax, meaning that little -- if any -- of the funds raised would be retained by municipal government. The vast majority under such a plan would be returned to the public.

    "It creates an incentive to become more energy efficient to either avoid the tax or keep as much of any rebate as possible," Green said. "But if they do the [carbon] tax, they should get rid of almost all of the other things. If the point is to put a price on carbon, pick one price, make it transparent and then get rid of the other regulations, which end up overpricing carbon. So if you had your carbon tax, you don't need your congestion pricing because people are already paying the tax in their gasoline."

    Green also said the proposal to ban the production and distribution of plastic bags and bottled water in city limits is as "heavy-handed as government can get" and questioned Cambridge's proposal to institute disincentives for the purchase of non-regional food.

    "Trying to grow something out of season in a greenhouse locally may produce more greenhouse gas emissions than having the same food shipped in from a place where it grows naturally," he said. "Studies do not come down uniformly on the side that local is better."

    But Richard Rood, a professor of atmospheric, oceanic, and space sciences at the University of Michigan, praised Cambridge's proposal to create a "temperate zone" program, in which building are neither heated nor cooled during the fall and spring.

    "That is a place where you might make a difference," said Rood, who writes a blog for Weather Underground.

    He also praised the city's proposal to advocate vegetarianism and veganism.

    "From a climate point of view, eating less meat would have a climate impact," said Rood, citing increased deforestation, methane production, fertilizer use and greenhouse gases associated with maintaining that land. "Eating less meat is for the environment in many ways.
    The feds will trump it. It violates the Constitution. The greenazis cannot force their BS on the public.

  9. #69
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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I think the point we are missing is it is not the elected authorities business to advocate for a lifestyle choice as far as diet or lifestyle choices go, it is not my councilman's nor any other representatives business in how I choose to live as long as it does not immediately pose a threat to the rights of others.
    I will admit I didn't think of it this way and I understand where you are coming from. I think the difference between you and I and the people of Cambridge that I talked to is that to us it isn't the government advocating a lifestyle choice, but recognizing a lifestyle choice. But if it changes and it looks more like they are advocating veganism then I will be the first in line to join you.

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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    I will admit I didn't think of it this way and I understand where you are coming from. I think the difference between you and I and the people of Cambridge that I talked to is that to us it isn't the government advocating a lifestyle choice, but recognizing a lifestyle choice. But if it changes and it looks more like they are advocating veganism then I will be the first in line to join you.
    Fair enough.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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