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Thread: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

  1. #31
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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Ah, I see.

    So if you agree with a tax, it's a valid governmental power, but if you disagree then it's a violation of your rights. Got it.
    Would you agree with a punitive tax placed on vegins for not eating enough beef?

    Please, stop being optuse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #32
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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Would you agree with a punitive tax placed on vegins for not eating enough beef?

    Please, stop being optuse.
    There is no such tax for non-vegans! There is Vegan Mondays, and there are no requirements to participate. Where is the loss of liberty?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #33
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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Would you agree with a punitive tax placed on vegins for not eating enough beef?

    Please, stop being optuse.
    It there were such a word as "optuse" maybe I'd agree.

    Taxes are used for political purposes all the time. Taxes are higher on cigarettes, gasoline, and alcohol in order to discourage their use; businesses are given tax breaks in order to accomplish other goals.

    This is nothing new. It's just that you personally don't like it so are crying like a baby.

    It seems to me:

    1. You agree with tax breaks and taxes when you like what they're used for but think that they are a violation of your rights when you don't like what they're used for.

    2. You agree that localities should be able to vote for things that the people want but think that it's a violation of your rights when you don't like what they vote for.

  4. #34
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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    There is no such tax for non-vegans! There is Vegan Mondays, and there are no requirements to participate. Where is the loss of liberty?

    Next up: Cambridge suggests that its citizens set aside Mondays as "Let's help old ladies cross the street" day. Conservative rally in protest of the obvious loss of liberty.

  5. #35
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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    There is no such tax for non-vegans! There is Vegan Mondays, and there are no requirements to participate. Where is the loss of liberty?
    Ya know, it helps if you actually keep up with what's being discussed in the thread.

    1) I never said that there was such a tax for vegans. I turned the tables to see if Groucho would be as acceptable to such a tax as he is to the meat eaters tax. But, changing direction to avoid the subject comes as no surprise.

    2) Anytime a person is punished--such as with a punitive tax on food--to promote an agenda, then liberties are in jeapordy. Hence the reason I asked if a punitive tax on vegans would be cool. Would it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #36
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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    It there were such a word as "optuse" maybe I'd agree.

    Taxes are used for political purposes all the time. Taxes are higher on cigarettes, gasoline, and alcohol in order to discourage their use; businesses are given tax breaks in order to accomplish other goals.

    This is nothing new. It's just that you personally don't like it so are crying like a baby.

    It seems to me:

    1. You agree with tax breaks and taxes when you like what they're used for but think that they are a violation of your rights when you don't like what they're used for.

    2. You agree that localities should be able to vote for things that the people want but think that it's a violation of your rights when you don't like what they vote for.
    Seems to me you're totally going in a different direction from the question I asked you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #37
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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Seems to me you're totally going in a different direction from the question I asked you.
    Because you don't want to respond?

    Look, the bottom line is that you seem to think that every time something is taxed it is therefore a violation of your liberties. You're taking that as a given and then moving on from there.

    I, and some of the others in this thread, disagree with your basic premise. A tax on soda or cigarettes or meat or gummi worms doesn't violate my rights at all. This is especially true when I don't have to buy whatever it is that is being taxed if I don't want to.

    The rest of your argument only makes sense if one agrees in the first place that any and every tax is a violation of your rights.

    EDIT: Now don't get me wrong: Object to taxes you hate all you want. There are taxes I hate too. But to say that it is a violation of your rights makes your argument less powerful, not moreso.
    Last edited by Groucho; 02-15-10 at 04:57 PM.

  8. #38
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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Because you don't want to respond?

    Look, the bottom line is that you seem to think that every time something is taxed it is therefore a violation of your liberties. You're taking that as a given and then moving on from there.

    I, and some of the others in this thread, disagree with your basic premise. A tax on soda or cigarettes or meat or gummi worms doesn't violate my rights at all. This is especially true when I don't have to buy whatever it is that is being taxed if I don't want to.

    The rest of your argument only makes sense if one agrees in the first place that any and every tax is a violation of your rights.
    If the tables were turned, would you still agree with a punitive tax?

    It's a simple question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #39
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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If the tables were turned, would you still agree with a punitive tax?

    It's a simple question.
    I agree with some and disagree with others. I agree that the government has the right to do punative taxes. I disagree with some of them.

    Here's the difference between us, which you still do not get: I don't think that taxes I personally disagree with are violations of my rights. They're just taxes I disagree with.

  10. #40
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    Re: Harvard Hometown Plans Coercive Taxes, Veganism to Stop Climate 'Emergency'

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    I agree with some and disagree with others. I agree that the government has the right to do punative taxes. I disagree with some of them.

    Here's the difference between us, which you still do not get: I don't think that taxes I personally disagree with are violations of my rights. They're just taxes I disagree with.
    Yes, there is a difference between us, you seem to think that I disagree with this tax, because I don't like it. In fact, I would disagree with any tax of this sort that has no other purpose than to punish people for not getting in lockstep with political agenda. Punitive taxes are a violation of my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Not only that, they open the door to an even more tyrannical use of punitive taxes. Much the same way that Hitler placed heavier taxes on Jews. Taxes were then and could very well be again, used to persecute certain groups.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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