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Fox News Poll: Most Voters Say Allow Gays to Serve Openly

apdst said:
Yeah, let's spend more money on social engineering vice more equipment that could save lives on the battlefield. That's a good common sense approach to running a military.
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However, and I believe this has already been pointed out somewhere in this thread, gays are already in the military and in the rest of society. How is repealing DADT "social engineering". It's done.

apdst said:
Where the hell did that **** come from?



The point I was making, is that the next time the Liberals start whining about soldiers in field lacking equipment, stop and think about the new billets that had to be constructed to accomodate their agenda.
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Why would new billets need to be constructed? Gays are there already.



ptif219 said:
If gays wouldn't make demands no one would talk about them.
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Demands like refusing to lie about who they are in order to serve in the military?
 
However, and I believe this has already been pointed out somewhere in this thread, gays are already in the military and in the rest of society. How is repealing DADT "social engineering". It's done.
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Its not done openly........Its a social experiment to see what might happen if its done openly....

Why would new billets need to be constructed? Gays are there already
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See above...

Demands like refusing to lie about who they are in order to serve in the military?
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They don't have to lie...No one is asking them...To get discharged they volunteer the info or they make advance against straights and get caught........
 
Gina said:
However, and I believe this has already been pointed out somewhere in this thread, gays are already in the military and in the rest of society. How is repealing DADT "social engineering". It's done.



Why would new billets need to be constructed? Gays are there already.





Demands like refusing to lie about who they are in order to serve in the military?
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Demand that everyone accept their life style.

To many it is immoral and disgusting. If they do not demand all know what they do in the bedroom no one would care.
 
ptif219 said:
Demand that everyone accept their life style.

To many it is immoral and disgusting. If they do not demand all know what they do in the bedroom no one would care.
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No one is demanding "everyone accept their lifestyle". Gays are not asking you or anyone else to agree with them, simply asking that your prejudiced views are not allowed to evidence themselves in the form of discrimination.

Get a clue: Many people probably find YOUR lifestyle immoral and disgusting. However, we don't try to meddle in your way of life. You should allow others the same courtesy.
 
Navy Pride said:
Its not done openly........Its a social experiment to see what might happen if its done openly....



See above...



They don't have to lie...No one is asking them...To get discharged they volunteer the info or they make advance against straights and get caught........
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The Whole idea behind "social engineering" is a joke and a ploy by the right-wing to hang on to their last grasp of discrimination.

The military is not a pawn to be played by the right wing and their efforts to block equality and justice for our citizenry.

Personally, I find it abhorrent that the right-wing thinks that they can use the military to advance their social agenda of hatred and intolerance.
 
disneydude said:
No one is demanding "everyone accept their lifestyle". Gays are not asking you or anyone else to agree with them, simply asking that your prejudiced views are not allowed to evidence themselves in the form of discrimination.

Get a clue: Many people probably find YOUR lifestyle immoral and disgusting. However, we don't try to meddle in your way of life. You should allow others the same courtesy.
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Thats crap they are even in the schools teaching kindergarten that it is normal.

No one cares if you are gay just shut up about it and quit demanding we know.
 
disneydude said:
The military is not a pawn to be played by the right wing and their efforts to block equality and justice for our citizenry.
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Not a pawn to be politically scuffled over either as the Left declares their war "lost", games are played with their funding, and their Commanders are called liars as they return to report on the battlefield.

From someone else this argument might actually make sense minus the normal "hatred and intolerance" nonsense. Coming from a far left leaning forum member, the round file is an appropriate filing.
 
ptif219 said:
Thats crap they are even in the schools teaching kindergarten that it is normal.

No one cares if you are gay just shut up about it and quit demanding we know.
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I think most gays would be willing to do that as long as their straight counterparts agreed to do the same.
 
Charles Martel said:
Not a pawn to be politically scuffled over either as the Left declares their war "lost", games are played with their funding, and their Commanders are called liars as they return to report on the battlefield.

From someone else this argument might actually make sense minus the normal "hatred and intolerance" nonsense. Coming from a far left leaning forum member, the round file is an appropriate filing.
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Oh please...you wanna talk about using our soldiers as pawns. Answer this question: Why should the men and women of our military EVER be asked to go in and risk their lives and limbs for a lie? For a war based on deceit and manipulation?
If you even google a little to learn some history you will see that Cheney and Rumsfield BOTH had been advocating for an invasion of Iraq for a decade.
They manipulated the public fear and used 911 as a basis to advance this objective.
Our military were nothing more than pawns in their seedy little hands.
 
Navy Pride said:
Its not done openly........Its a social experiment to see what might happen if its done openly....



See above...



They don't have to lie...No one is asking them...To get discharged they volunteer the info or they make advance against straights and get caught........
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Repealing DADT is not meant to be an experiment. It's meant to right a wrong as Admiral Mullen stated:

"We have in place a policy that forces young men and women to lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens," Mullen said. "For me, personally, it comes down to integrity: Theirs as an individual, ours as an institution."​

Yes, they are told to lie and hide who they are or they will be kicked out. True, some volunteer the information, like Lt. Choi, but others are "discovered" because they were caught writing email, or talking to the people they love. This one was discharged because of a "stream of anonymous emails.

Army dismisses gay Arabic linguist - Military- msnbc.com



ptif219 said:
Demand that everyone accept their life style.

To many it is immoral and disgusting. If they do not demand all know what they do in the bedroom no one would care.
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They don't want to tell you about being gay, they just want to date, write and talk to the people they love without fear of retribution.



disneydude said:
No one is demanding "everyone accept their lifestyle". Gays are not asking you or anyone else to agree with them, simply asking that your prejudiced views are not allowed to evidence themselves in the form of discrimination.

Get a clue: Many people probably find YOUR lifestyle immoral and disgusting. However, we don't try to meddle in your way of life. You should allow others the same courtesy.
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Well said.
 
disneydude said:
Oh please...you wanna talk about using our soldiers as pawns.
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Absolutely, with anyone from the Left, why?

Answer this question: Why should the men and women of our military EVER be asked to go in and risk their lives and limbs for a lie? For a war based on deceit and manipulation?
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Answer:Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 - SourceWatch

If you even google a little to learn some history you will see that Cheney and Rumsfield BOTH had been advocating for an invasion of Iraq for a decade.
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So had I!

They manipulated the public fear and used 911 as a basis to advance this objective.
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I wanted to discuss that with one of you Lefties. Why are you so easily manipulated? I mean Bush manipulated you to war, Obama manipulated you into vioting for an absolute amateur of a President...it's like why is it you can be so easily molded and what not, you don't see us Repubs rolling over for Barack do ya? We're even called the "Party of No" while the Left to this day whines it was manipulated and tricked...lied to and deceived. Why so easily led, why be a constant follower and never a leader.

Our military were nothing more than pawns in their seedy little hands.
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Our history chock full of military troops being spit on, being criticized. Called murderers by Murtha. Called loser by Reid. Called liars by Hillary Clinton. See any similarities in those three names....that's right...all of em got a D preceeding.:mrgreen:
 
This whole gay marriage and gays serving openly in the military is nothing but a ploy to stuff the gay lifestyle dow straight peoples throats........To have it accepted as a suitable alternative life style......to teach our kids in school that being gay is a good thing......If that was not the case then the militant gays and the "Feel good" liberals would accept Civil Unions with equal rights or call it any name you want.........just not marriage......You see a lot of us consider marriage a sacred union between a man and a woman and that won't change.......A few militant gays and Liberals won't accept this.......

At this time I believe civil unions with equal rights are whe way to go but the Conservatives I deal with are slowly going away from this to........Most states are now changing their constitutions to not only not allow gay marriage but also civil unions to.........

You can thank a few militant gays and some feel good libs for this...........
 
disneydude said:
I think most gays would be willing to do that as long as their straight counterparts agreed to do the same.
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Its not us its your liberal friends in the media and making movies that put all the sex out there.
 
Gina said:
Repealing DADT is not meant to be an experiment. It's meant to right a wrong as Admiral Mullen stated:

"We have in place a policy that forces young men and women to lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens," Mullen said. "For me, personally, it comes down to integrity: Theirs as an individual, ours as an institution."​

Yes, they are told to lie and hide who they are or they will be kicked out. True, some volunteer the information, like Lt. Choi, but others are "discovered" because they were caught writing email, or talking to the people they love. This one was discharged because of a "stream of anonymous emails.

Army dismisses gay Arabic linguist - Military- msnbc.com





They don't want to tell you about being gay, they just want to date, write and talk to the people they love without fear of retribution.






Well said.
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Thats funny. It will take years so we will hear gays whining for years.

Gays want special rights and want everyone to look at them and how great they are.
 
Navy Pride said:
This whole gay marriage and gays serving openly in the military is nothing but a ploy to stuff the gay lifestyle dow straight peoples throats........To have it accepted as a suitable alternative life style......to teach our kids in school that being gay is a good thing......If that was not the case then the militant gays and the "Feel good" liberals would accept Civil Unions with equal rights or call it any name you want.........just not marriage......You see a lot of us consider marriage a sacred union between a man and a woman and that won't change.......A few militant gays and Liberals won't accept this.......
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Just out of curiosity, Navy, how exactly does one shove the gay lifestyle down someone's throat? Regardless of whether people agree with it or not, it exists. Just as racism will always exist, there will always be people who don't like homosexuals. It's just a fact of life. And the only people I've seen who still consider marriage a sacred union are older people who are from a generation when marriage was a sacred thing. Now it is a joke. People can get married and divorced with ease. I don't see how marriage, in its current form, is too sacred for people of the same sex.
 
Navy Pride said:
This whole gay marriage and gays serving openly in the military is nothing but a ploy to stuff the gay lifestyle dow straight peoples throats........To have it accepted as a suitable alternative life style......to teach our kids in school that being gay is a good thing......If that was not the case then the militant gays and the "Feel good" liberals would accept Civil Unions with equal rights or call it any name you want.........just not marriage......You see a lot of us consider marriage a sacred union between a man and a woman and that won't change.......A few militant gays and Liberals won't accept this.......

At this time I believe civil unions with equal rights are whe way to go but the Conservatives I deal with are slowly going away from this to........Most states are now changing their constitutions to not only not allow gay marriage but also civil unions to.........

You can thank a few militant gays and some feel good libs for this...........
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This is all BS. The only people trying to foist their beliefs on anyone are the anti-gay folk that want to keep discrimination in place.

Nowhere are gays saying that You or anyone else has to condone or accept their "lifestyle" any more than we have to accept ANYONE's lifestyle.
Its about governmental involvement in discrimination, nothing more...nothing less.

Why should what YOU consider a "sacred institution" be required to be what your neighbor thinks is a "sacred institution"?
There were a lot of people who thought slavery was a "Sacred institution"...it didn't make it right.

There were a lot of people who argued that allowing intermixing of our race as destroying a "sacred insitutition". They were wrong as well.

Why weren't segregated schools, drinking fountains and theaters good enough?
After all....separate but equal is fine for you isn't it Navy?

The whole "Shoving a lifestyle down our throats" is nothing more than a talking point by the anti-gay folk who simply want to keep discrimination well and alive in the United States....well guess what....America is waking up to you and moving in a direction of freedom and justice for ALL...not just some.
 
Navy Pride said:
This whole gay marriage and gays serving openly in the military is nothing but a ploy to stuff the gay lifestyle dow straight peoples throats........To have it accepted as a suitable alternative life style......to teach our kids in school that being gay is a good thing......If that was not the case then the militant gays and the "Feel good" liberals would accept Civil Unions with equal rights or call it any name you want.........just not marriage......You see a lot of us consider marriage a sacred union between a man and a woman and that won't change.......A few militant gays and Liberals won't accept this.......

At this time I believe civil unions with equal rights are whe way to go but the Conservatives I deal with are slowly going away from this to........Most states are now changing their constitutions to not only not allow gay marriage but also civil unions to.........

You can thank a few militant gays and some feel good libs for this...........
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1) Nobody cares what your book says, legally speaking. The bible, qur'an, torah, and similar text are not the basis for our laws. See: Separation of church and state.

2) You're advocating separate but equal. That has never in history worked out. There are always legal implications of using a different term.

3) I'm going to pistol whip the next man who uses the phrase "militant gay." (Or "shenanigans.") Have you ever met one? What does a militant gay do? How is getting married ramming a "lifestyle" down your throat? You've just admitted to thinking that their "lifestyle" is not acceptable to you; why not just come out and say you think homosexuality is an abomination?
 
ptif219 said:
Thats funny. It will take years so we will hear gays whining for years.

Gays want special rights and want everyone to look at them and how great they are.
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No one is whining. They are simply demanding that they be allowed to serve their country without lying or hiding who they are. It puts their career in jeopardy, as per my earlier link.

A further point I would like to make, they are discharging some very skilled and valuable service people. Lt. Choi graduated from West Point and is an Arabic translator. Sgt. Bleu Copas was also an Arabic language specialist.

This is from the article I linked in my earlier reply:

But the GAO also noted that nearly 800 dismissed gay or lesbian service members had critical abilities, including 300 with important language skills. Fifty-five were proficient in Arabic, including Copas, a graduate of the Defense Language Institute in California.

Discharging and replacing them has cost the Pentagon nearly $369 million, according to the Center for the Study of Sexual Minorities in the Military at the University of California, Santa Barbara.​

That certainly does not aide in the defense of our country to dismiss people with the abilities we really need now.



disneydude said:
This is all BS. The only people trying to foist their beliefs on anyone are the anti-gay folk that want to keep discrimination in place.

Nowhere are gays saying that You or anyone else has to condone or accept their "lifestyle" any more than we have to accept ANYONE's lifestyle.
Its about governmental involvement in discrimination, nothing more...nothing less.

Why should what YOU consider a "sacred institution" be required to be what your neighbor thinks is a "sacred institution"?
There were a lot of people who thought slavery was a "Sacred institution"...it didn't make it right.

There were a lot of people who argued that allowing intermixing of our race as destroying a "sacred insitutition". They were wrong as well.

Why weren't segregated schools, drinking fountains and theaters good enough?
After all....separate but equal is fine for you isn't it Navy?

The whole "Shoving a lifestyle down our throats" is nothing more than a talking point by the anti-gay folk who simply want to keep discrimination well and alive in the United States....well guess what....America is waking up to you and moving in a direction of freedom and justice for ALL...not just some.
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Again, nicely stated.
 
The right-wing is deathly afraid of the military's acceptance of gays, because where an organization like the military says, "hey discrimination is wrong" and "gays are ok", it defeats their right-wing social agenda of advancing discrimination.
They are afraid that if gays are allowed in the military and people see that gays are normal like everyone else, it does not bode well for their anti-gay marriage agenda.
They want to continue to use the military to advance their religious social agenda. They don't care what is best for the military, they only care what will keep their drowning agenda afloat for another day.
 
ptif219 said:
Thats funny. It will take years so we will hear gays whining for years.

Gays want special rights and want everyone to look at them and how great they are.
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Explain how wanting to serve our country is whining or demanding "special" rights. Seems to me we are all equal in front of the canon. Grow up.
 
Deuce said:
1) Nobody cares what your book says, legally speaking. The bible, qur'an, torah, and similar text are not the basis for our laws. See: Separation of church and state.

2) You're advocating separate but equal. That has never in history worked out. There are always legal implications of using a different term.

3) I'm going to pistol whip the next man who uses the phrase "militant gay." (Or "shenanigans.") Have you ever met one? What does a militant gay do? How is getting married ramming a "lifestyle" down your throat? You've just admitted to thinking that their "lifestyle" is not acceptable to you; why not just come out and say you think homosexuality is an abomination?
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Militant gay
MG_114.gif
 
Dr_Patrick said:
Just out of curiosity, Navy, how exactly does one shove the gay lifestyle down someone's throat? Regardless of whether people agree with it or not, it exists. Just as racism will always exist, there will always be people who don't like homosexuals. It's just a fact of life. And the only people I've seen who still consider marriage a sacred union are older people who are from a generation when marriage was a sacred thing. Now it is a joke. People can get married and divorced with ease. I don't see how marriage, in its current form, is too sacred for people of the same sex.
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That is and easy one By pushing gay marriage, DADT, and trying to take the rights away from parents a teaching it to kids in grammar school..........

A lot of us don't believe marriage is a joke, we believe its a sacred institution......The only reason the divorce rate is up so high is because a lot of young people have sex for the first time and think they are in love so they get married.....after the novelty of sex wears off and that is all there was between the 2 they get divorced.........If you throw all these immature youg people out you would find the divorce rate much lower.......
 
Gina said:
No one is whining. They are simply demanding that they be allowed to serve their country without lying or hiding who they are. It puts their career in jeopardy, as per my earlier link.

A further point I would like to make, they are discharging some very skilled and valuable service people. Lt. Choi graduated from West Point and is an Arabic translator. Sgt. Bleu Copas was also an Arabic language specialist.

This is from the article I linked in my earlier reply:

But the GAO also noted that nearly 800 dismissed gay or lesbian service members had critical abilities, including 300 with important language skills. Fifty-five were proficient in Arabic, including Copas, a graduate of the Defense Language Institute in California.

Discharging and replacing them has cost the Pentagon nearly $369 million, according to the Center for the Study of Sexual Minorities in the Military at the University of California, Santa Barbara.​

That certainly does not aide in the defense of our country to dismiss people with the abilities we really need now.






Again, nicely stated.
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Not whining is that why they are in the courts trying to take the voters votes away.

You are whining shut up and no one will care. no you have to ram you sexual choice down our throats like we care what you do.

The trick is shut up no one cares and you can have a rewarding military career.
 
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Reno J said:
Explain how wanting to serve our country is whining or demanding "special" rights. Seems to me we are all equal in front of the canon. Grow up.
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I have not heard anyone denying you serving your country.......You just have to obey the laws just like the rest of us.......
 
disneydude said:
The right-wing is deathly afraid of the military's acceptance of gays, because where an organization like the military says, "hey discrimination is wrong" and "gays are ok", it defeats their right-wing social agenda of advancing discrimination.
They are afraid that if gays are allowed in the military and people see that gays are normal like everyone else, it does not bode well for their anti-gay marriage agenda.
They want to continue to use the military to advance their religious social agenda. They don't care what is best for the military, they only care what will keep their drowning agenda afloat for another day.
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Acceptance they are going to study it for a year. Then congress has to vote. It is not a done deal so don't count your chickens yet
 
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