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Thread: Fox News Poll: Most Voters Say Allow Gays to Serve Openly

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    Re: Fox News Poll: Most Voters Say Allow Gays to Serve Openly

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You totally misunderstand what DADT is designed to do. Gay bans in the military didn't start with DADT. DADT took away a commander's legal ability to question a soldier about his/her sexuality. Even if gays are allowed to serve openly, DADT needs to remain in place.
    With DADT eliminated, a commander still will not be allowed to question a soldier's sexuality. You still have not made a case.


    [quote=apdst;1058568685]It prevents a heterophobe from discriminating against a straight soldier because of his sexuality. And, please, let's don't act like it can't happen. We all know it can, does and will. [/ QUOTE]


    Some people will discriminate and I'm sure there is already discrimination if a homophobe suspects. As you pointed out, that situation will be more prominent too. Women are in the same position, are they not? But neither circumstance is a reason to not allow gays to serve openly or women to serve at all.

    Discrimination takes place in other venues of society and we have to deal with it there.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's right, DA was violated. Because of that, Sgt. Copas had the legal right not to answer any questions regarding his sexuality. Appears to be a lack of leadership in that particular unit, but, we are tlaking about a ****ing chorus, so we can't expect them to live up to the traditions of discipline and leadership of the United States military.
    Why can't you expect that they live up to the rest of military standards? It's still the military with all the rules in full effect, yes? He was also an Arabic linguist, which are very important at this point in time considering the countries in which we are fighting.


    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Under the UCMJ, as with the Constituion, Sgt. Copas would have had the right to face his accuser. There's no way that the Army could have charged him with perjury.
    They never identified his accuser, remember? But they had clear evidence and even without his confession, he would have been discharged.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I wouldn't. And, I would cite DADT as the reason that I refused to answer the question.

    It don't work like that.
    You don't think the commanders would come away with an impression from a refusal to answer? They can't act against you, but they are human and it would raise suspicion.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because it would allow the Perez Hiltons of the world to openly question straight soldiers about their feelings toward gays and gay issues, then allow those straight soldiers to be discriminated against. Agian, let's don't act like all gays are perfect, wonderful, fair, cool and understanding people that would never, ever do anything wrong, such as discriminate against a straight soldier, or show favoritism toward a gay soldier.

    If you want to hear the crybaby **** of, "I didn't get promoted because my gay commander doesn't like straights", then remove DADT and let the games begin.

    I think that the proponents of the abolition of DADT think that when it happens, everything is going to right in the world and bad things aren't going to be a result and that just ain't how it's going to be.
    Let us not pretend that the opposite is not true either and isn't going on now with those who suspect someone.

    Gays are in every realm of society and it hasn't fallen apart yet. Your predictions sound similar to those made when the service was integrated. It didn't fall apart then.

    I don't believe those of us who want the repeal of DADT think for a second, it will right all wrongs. That would be fool hearty and naive.

    Again, not to equate homosexuality with race, we cannot go on discriminating against a class of Americans because of what "might" happen if we "allow" them to be who they are.

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    Re: Fox News Poll: Most Voters Say Allow Gays to Serve Openly

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    I will not respond to you
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    Re: Fox News Poll: Most Voters Say Allow Gays to Serve Openly

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    It fits the definition. Does that upset you?
    Why would it upset me?
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    Re: Fox News Poll: Most Voters Say Allow Gays to Serve Openly

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Teaching information and teaching morals are two different things, NP.
    I want my chilldren to have the same morals my wife and I have....I don't know if you have kids or not but its very difficult to raise children these days...There are so many obstacles they have to face that were not there when we were kids, drugs, porn open sexuality.....I wanted to teach and tell my kids about these things not some liberal teacher with and agenda.....I want the teachers to teach what they are paid to teach, especially in grade school......I will take care of the rest......It worked out well in my family and thus far it has worked out well with my kids and their families........

    I give my children the info and when they become adults they make their own decisions.........

    We live in a conservative family....No one takes drugs, been in jail or protests our military......We believe in live and let live.........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Fox News Poll: Most Voters Say Allow Gays to Serve Openly

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I want my chilldren to have the same morals my wife and I have.... .........

    What? That having sex with a married woman while her husband is off serving this country is OK and something to brag about?

    Navy....you are being hypocritical just like all those other "Family Value" folk who are really saying "Do as I say, not as I do".

    I understand that people do things that are wrong in their youth...and if you had taken the stance that, yes I did this, but I was wrong and I have repented for it, I would give you a break here....

    But not even a week ago you were here boasting about this....

    That is not the high values that you proclaim to have and want your children to have....is it?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Fox News Poll: Most Voters Say Allow Gays to Serve Openly

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    What? That having sex with a married woman while her husband is off serving this country is OK and something to brag about?

    Navy....you are being hypocritical just like all those other "Family Value" folk who are really saying "Do as I say, not as I do".

    I understand that people do things that are wrong in their youth...and if you had taken the stance that, yes I did this, but I was wrong and I have repented for it, I would give you a break here....

    But not even a week ago you were here boasting about this....

    That is not the high values that you proclaim to have and want your children to have....is it?
    are you serious?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Fox News Poll: Most Voters Say Allow Gays to Serve Openly

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    are you serious?
    Serious about what? That I find it hypocritical to pretend to have high values and then turn around and brag about having sex with a married woman?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Fox News Poll: Most Voters Say Allow Gays to Serve Openly

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I want my chilldren to have the same morals my wife and I have....I don't know if you have kids or not but its very difficult to raise children these days...There are so many obstacles they have to face that were not there when we were kids, drugs, porn open sexuality.....I wanted to teach and tell my kids about these things not some liberal teacher with and agenda.....I want the teachers to teach what they are paid to teach, especially in grade school......I will take care of the rest......It worked out well in my family and thus far it has worked out well with my kids and their families........

    I give my children the info and when they become adults they make their own decisions.........

    We live in a conservative family....No one takes drugs, been in jail or protests our military......We believe in live and let live.........
    I have no problem at all with that. But I would have a problem with you if you attempt to dictate YOUR idea of morals to others, who have different ideas on what is right and wrong.
    Last edited by danarhea; 02-18-10 at 07:00 PM.
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    Re: Fox News Poll: Most Voters Say Allow Gays to Serve Openly

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I have no problem at all with that. But I would have a problem with you if you attempt to dictate YOUR idea of morals to others, who have different ideas on what is right and wrong.
    I'm still trying to get over the "We believe in live and let live" part.

    But I do believe it is a parents responsibility to instill in their children traits they deem to be acceptable. Some times it works, some times it doesn't.

    I imagine it was hard raising children and being full time military. For that, Navy has all my respect. Right or wrong, a lot of father's these days could care less.

    Say what you want about NP but I suspect he is a wonderful dad very much loved by his family.

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    Re: Fox News Poll: Most Voters Say Allow Gays to Serve Openly

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I'm still trying to get over the "We believe in live and let live" part.

    But I do believe it is a parents responsibility to instill in their children traits they deem to be acceptable. Some times it works, some times it doesn't.

    I imagine it was hard raising children and being full time military. For that, Navy has all my respect. Right or wrong, a lot of father's these days could care less.

    Say what you want about NP but I suspect he is a wonderful dad very much loved by his family.
    True that, but he is also set in his ways...... Just like myself. Yea, I am getting old myself, and have a lot of "set" views. I love Goldwater Conservatism, and can't understand why so many are abandoning it. Or, just maybe, the world is moving on, and leaving the opinions of gnarly old mother****ers like myself in the dust. Same could apply to NP. At any rate, I remember when the world was a better place, and people talked to each other instead of over each other. I bet NP also waxes nostalgic for another era.
    Last edited by danarhea; 02-18-10 at 07:12 PM.
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