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3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

By the way I am still waiting for proof that 21 year olds-the youngest age someone could legally obtain a CCW or CCH license in any state of the Union-are more prone to misusing legally carried guns compared to 24 year olds at a rate that has any significance. Since 45 states or so have determined that is the proper lower limit that sort of trumps the claims of "psychotherapists"

If someone is mature enough to be able to contract (18) stand trial for capital murder (18), get married without parental consent (18 or lower in a few jurisdictions), enter the military, vote for politicians, then someone 3 years older is certainly mature enough to carry a weapon and millions of men have done that throughout our history in service to the country and didn't cause problems.

The average age of an infantry soldier in Nam was what-19? of 2nd Lt's commanding platoons? 21-22.
 
The perp walks, talks, and smells like a sociopath, perhaps a psychopath but I don't think so, as she appears to have a hard time hiding her anger and she's no charmer. This woman couldn't charm a horny blind man with a million dollars. She's one cold bitch and I hope she fries.

I see some nasty history is making its way into the media. I'll bet killing her brother was no accident. Someone gave her the benefit of the doubt on that one when they shouldn't have.
 
Then try not to make smarmy remarks and you might not get them back.



I wouldn't bet if I were you. You'll look real foolish. Remember, not agreeing with something doesn't mean it's wrong. Good thing to note.

I found the information in two sources. First, a survey done by researchers at Harvard (the researchers having tracked gun ownership over the past 25 years), who sampled homes in the US for gun ownership demographics. 2770 homes were surveyed. Of those homes, 726 (26%) owned firearms; the breakdown of these numbers are as follows: 16% of gun owners were registered to <25 year olds; 26% to those between 25-44; 30% to those between 44-64; and 27% to those >or=65.

The second source comes from The National Gun Policy Survey from the University of Chicago. It's age breakdown is a little larger: 13.3% < 30 own a gun; 20.6% 30-39; 28.8% 40-49; 29.4% 50-65; 29.2 > 65.

Clearly no matter how you look at it, as folks get older, the are more likely to own a gun.

Links to the sources:

How Many Guns Are There and Who Owns Them? - Characteristics Of Gun Owners
The US gun stock: results from the 2004 national firearms survey -- Hepburn et al. 13 (1): 15 -- Injury Prevention
The US gun stock: results from the 2004 national firearms survey -- -- Injury Prevention


Cap, I looked at the top link and didn't see raw data or how the survey was conducted, or whether the sample was nationwide, etc. I'd have to have a few doubts.

On the second link, there was some more data: national distribution, etc. But their numbers were odd: 42 million US households with guns? The latest figures I've heard were 80 to 90 million households.

Also, at least one seems to be focused on registered guns...and most Southern states (and many midWest states) do not require guns to be registered. Not to mention, as the Turtle said, a lot of gun owners would be reluctant to tell some survey-taker what they had... I know I wouldn't answer such a survey. You never know for sure who you're talking to or what their agenda is, you see.

On the whole I think this puts those studies in a somewhat dubious light, as to the accuracy of their stats.

I've read the recent reports that certain aspects of brain development, specifically those relating to self-restraint and impulse control, tend not to reach full development until around 22-25yo. I won't dispute that; it makes sense to me. Yet I'm not sure that it is the whole story: we have plenty of evidence that 18-21 yo's are capable of handling enormous responsibility under many circumstances. The example of 18-21yo's serving in the military being one such example. Another would be, as some older posters have noted, that back in the 50's and early 60's many teens had ready access to guns and even brought hunting rifles to school, yet Columbine-type incidents were effectively unheard-of.

As I said, I will not dispute that the average 25yo has better impulse control and ability to judge outcomes than the average 18-21yo; I'm sure that is generally true. I think the more relevant question is whether the average 21yo is perfectly capable of exercising functionally adequate impulse control and good judgement in regards to CCW.

It would appear that at least 40 states have decided the answer to that question is "yes", because 21 is when CCW is allowed.

Now if you want to argue that the average 21-22yo college student is less responsible than the average 21-22yo working-man or military enlistee... you might have a better case. :mrgreen:

But whose fault is that? Is it our society's fault for letting college be an extension of irresponsible adolescence, letting those young adults (they are not "kids") continue to act like 17yo party-animals, when some of their same-age generational compatriots are non-comms leading infantry squads in Tikrit, and some of their other same-age compatriots have a full-time job, bills, a spouse and children to take care of? Hmmmm.... food for thought perhaps.

G.
 
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Cap, I looked at the top link and didn't see raw data or how the survey was conducted, or whether the sample was nationwide, etc. I'd have to have a few doubts.

On the second link, there was some more data: national distribution, etc. But their numbers were odd: 42 million US households with guns? The latest figures I've heard were 80 to 90 million households.

Also, at least one seems to be focused on registered guns...and most Southern states (and many midWest states) do not require guns to be registered. Not to mention, as the Turtle said, a lot of gun owners would be reluctant to tell some survey-taker what they had... I know I wouldn't answer such a survey. You never know for sure who you're talking to or what their agenda is, you see.

On the whole I think this puts those studies in a somewhat dubious light, as to the accuracy of their stats.

I've read the recent reports that certain aspects of brain development, specifically those relating to self-restraint and impulse control, tend not to reach full development until around 22-25yo. I won't dispute that; it makes sense to me. Yet I'm not sure that it is the whole story: we have plenty of evidence that 18-21 yo's are capable of handling enormous responsibility under many circumstances. The example of 18-21yo's serving in the military being one such example. Another would be, as some older posters have noted, that back in the 50's and early 60's many teens had ready access to guns and even brought hunting rifles to school, yet Columbine-type incidents were effectively unheard-of.

As I said, I will not dispute that the average 25yo has better impulse control and ability to judge outcomes than the average 18-21yo; I'm sure that is generally true. I think the more relevant question is whether the average 21yo is perfectly capable of exercising functionally adequate impulse control and good judgement in regards to CCW.

It would appear that at least 40 states have decided the answer to that question is "yes", because 21 is when CCW is allowed.

Now if you want to argue that the average 21-22yo college student is less responsible than the average 21-22yo working-man or military enlistee... you might have a better case. :mrgreen:

But whose fault is that? Is it our society's fault for letting college be an extension of irresponsible adolescence, letting those young adults (they are not "kids") continue to act like 17yo party-animals, when some of their same-age generational compatriots are non-comms leading infantry squads in Tikrit, and some of their other same-age compatriots have a full-time job, bills, a spouse and children to take care of? Hmmmm.... food for thought perhaps.

G.

I placed in bold the key phrase. That is precisely what I am arguing, as I have repeatedly commented on the social/cultural pressures and differences on school campuses AND in today's society in general. I have also stated that a 21 year old serving in the military is in a completely different social/cultural environment, and therefore this would not apply. The brain research is accurate, however, situations can be triggers to the reactions I am indicating.
 
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Those surveys are notoriously inaccurate. Many gun owners refuse to answer such surveys accurately because they are rightly suspicious of the government or academics knowing what they have

and furthermore there is a difference between 10 21 year olds each owning one gun vs 5 thirty year olds owning 4 guns each. You see people who own guns tend to own more as they get older. Very different matter.

For example, the City of Cincinnati passed a law in 1989 requiring people to register certain "assault weapons". Less than 100 were registered. At the time I was general counsel for the largest NRA gun club in the USA and counsel for two of the 4 biggest dealers in greater Cincinnati. I knew for a fact that these two shops had sold close to a thousand weapons that required registration to people who lived within the jurisdiction of Cincinnati. Yet the mayor claimed there were only 100 or so said weapons in Cincinnati.

People just ignored the now repealed silly law

The numbers were percentages on persons in households. The number of guns were irrelevant. It was the ownership that was key.

And if you dispute the numbers, let's see some of your own.
 
By the way I am still waiting for proof that 21 year olds-the youngest age someone could legally obtain a CCW or CCH license in any state of the Union-are more prone to misusing legally carried guns compared to 24 year olds at a rate that has any significance. Since 45 states or so have determined that is the proper lower limit that sort of trumps the claims of "psychotherapists"

If someone is mature enough to be able to contract (18) stand trial for capital murder (18), get married without parental consent (18 or lower in a few jurisdictions), enter the military, vote for politicians, then someone 3 years older is certainly mature enough to carry a weapon and millions of men have done that throughout our history in service to the country and didn't cause problems.

The average age of an infantry soldier in Nam was what-19? of 2nd Lt's commanding platoons? 21-22.

Firstly, I am talking about a specific scenario... guns on school campuses. Secondly, the research is fairly new... about 10-15 years old. Easily trumps any information you have presented on the actions of the age group we are discussing in the situation we are discussing. So, please, represent my argument accurately.
 
Bottom line-200 years of a US military, 45 states with CCW permits all suggest that 21 year olds with licenses are perfectly capable of rational judgment vs what you claim are new studies.

How many 21 year olds have served in the army and marines? That is a rather good data pool

the fact is gun free zones are a magnet for active shooters. End of story
 
The only problem I have about guns is forgetting to keep mine loaded.:)
 
She was a left wing whacko.

‘Oddball’ portrait of Amy Bishop emerges - BostonHerald.com

A family source said Bishop, a mother of four children - the youngest a third-grade boy - was a far-left political extremist who was “obsessed” with President Obama to the point of being off-putting.

Does that mean super republican John List tainted george bush's administration.

AMW | Feature | Notorious AMW Fugitive John List Dead at 82

And, don't forget Ted Bundy who came from a prominent republican family.
 
Is that an admission that most people these days are, generally, "bad people" to a far greater degree or commonality than was the case in, say, the 1950's or 60's?
More likely it is a comment on our state of moral decay.
Personally, I blame the boomers and their self-entitled 'you cant judge me' attitude.
 
More likely it is a comment on our state of moral decay.
Personally, I blame the boomers and their self-entitled 'you cant judge me' attitude.

So you blame everyone between the ages of 45 and 65? That's a big spread.
 
So you blame everyone between the ages of 45 and 65? That's a big spread.
No, not really... I blame the attitude, and those that hold it.
Its primarily a boomer thing, and so that's how I phrase it.
 
So did Bundy talk politics? Did List talk politics.
Ted bundy belonged to the young republicans club. List was a typical virginia conservative who always voted republican with the christian fundamentalists.
 
Ted bundy belonged to the young republicans club. List was a typical virginia conservative who always voted republican with the christian fundamentalists.

Thats nice but the first I heard of it so it is not common knowledge.

Does that mean mental disease is not limited to democrats?
JC-hysterical.gif
 
Thats nice but the first I heard of it so it is not common knowledge.

Does that mean mental disease is not limited to democrats?
JC-hysterical.gif

I thought being a democrat was a symptom of mental disease
 
Bottom line-200 years of a US military, 45 states with CCW permits all suggest that 21 year olds with licenses are perfectly capable of rational judgment vs what you claim are new studies.

How many 21 year olds have served in the army and marines? That is a rather good data pool

the fact is gun free zones are a magnet for active shooters. End of story

Bottom line- I am talking about a specific scenario, NOT about folks in the military. And I do not believe that the research has been used in the way I am suggesting, yet.
 
She was a left wing whacko.

‘Oddball’ portrait of Amy Bishop emerges - BostonHerald.com

A family source said Bishop, a mother of four children - the youngest a third-grade boy - was a far-left political extremist who was “obsessed” with President Obama to the point of being off-putting.

Not sure what this has to do with anything. The shooting wasn't politically motivated and 2 of those she shot were supporters of Obama as well. This had to do with her being denied Tenure and getting pissed off about it. Just another case of a disgruntled worker.
 
Not sure what this has to do with anything. The shooting wasn't politically motivated and 2 of those she shot were supporters of Obama as well. This had to do with her being denied Tenure and getting pissed off about it. Just another case of a disgruntled worker.

you make a valid point but if she were a Palin supporter who shot a couple republicans the barking loons would be having a field day.

However, Obama/Biden was the most anti gun ticket to ever run on a major US party ticket and that makes an Obama slurper with a gun rather interesting.
 
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