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Thread: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

  1. #51
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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    According to the new Violence Policy Center on-line resource CCW Killers, during the period May 2007 through October 2009 concealed handgun permit holders killed eight law enforcement officers and 77 private citizens (including 10 shooters who killed themselves after an attack).


    http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwmassshootings.pdf

    I just checked the source you linked to. It appears to be a very biased and questionable one.

    For one thing, the Violence Policy Center is strongly biased against private firearms and part of their purpose is to promote gun control legislation.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Policy_Center]Violence Policy Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


    The VPC has been criticized for biased or inaccurate studies before:

    Criticism of the VPC

    Hardly makes them objective... indeed they have been criticized by OTHER gun control orgs for some of their positions. Not much of a source.

    For instance, the very first case study was about Micheal MacLendon. I looked up the story mentioned in the case study. In that story, there is no mention of MacLendon having a CCW. In fact, the story says this:
    McLendon had been a Marine briefly but was discharged for falsifying information.
    Officials: Alabama shooter depressed over failures
    If he was dishonorably discharged from the US military, in many states that would bar him from obtaining a CCW.


    A virulently biased gun-control advocacy group whose accuracy, honesty and reasonableness has been widely questioned isn't much of a counter argument.

    EVEN IF the Eleven cases listed on the link to which you provided are all truly about CCW's that killed more than one person (which I doubt the accuracy of for reasons already given), that would still be 11 people out of somewhere around twenty million CCW's in America. That would be 0.000055%... a very very low ratio.

    How many mass murders have there been total, in the USA, in the past twenty years? If you define mass murder as one individual killing three or more people, there may have been hundreds. Below is a partial list of mass killings that is by no means complete. You have a list of 11 people that allegedly committed mass murder and allegedly had CCW's from a clearly biased source... even if we take it at face value there are obviously several dozen non-CCW mass murderers to every one CCW?

    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_murderers_and_spree_killers_by_number _of_victims"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_murderers_and_spree_killers_by_number _of_victims[/ame]

    Again, this goes along with what I was saying, and what statistics prove: CCW holders are on average FAR more law abiding than the general public. They are statistically FAR LESS of a threat to anyone than people among the non-CCW general population. There is NO reason to believe that allowing adults with CCW to carry on campus would increase the risk to anyone.
    Last edited by Goshin; 02-13-10 at 04:36 PM.

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  2. #52
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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    I am talking about carrying at school. Many states have open carry laws and if all students are allowed to carry open or concealed it very well could become a fad.
    Very few states allow open carry of handguns in public places by persons without permits. Of those that do, I haven't noticed teenagers walking around a shopping center packing guns openly as a fashion statement. There is no basis for this argument.

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  3. #53
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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I don't think it would be a good idea to have a lot of students armed because of the confusion it would cause in a life-or-death situation. Shooting a stationary target and knowing the weapon safety rules is different than taking down a dynamic and armed target in an urban environment with thousands of civilians around. The latter requires an understanding of battlefield dynamics that does not come with a CCW permit. In my opinion, anyone who wants to carry a firearm on campus should go through an advanced shooting course; that way we don't have multiple heroes running around the campus mistakenly shooting one another or other students.

    With all due respect, Ethereal, I see this as an extension of the argument that CCW "will cause wild-west bloodbaths" or "people will be shooting people by mistake" in the more general sense.

    What is more crowded than the downtown of a big city? Yet there are quite a few large cities where CCW is permitted, and they have not experienced these problems.

    I was in Atlanta recently and spent quite a bit of time downtown packing my pistol; I was most assuredly not the only one. However this notion that when some criminal starts shooting, that there will be dozens of would-be heroes causing a general mass-gunfight and killing innocents by mistake... it hasn't happened, even in crowded big-city downtown areas where CCW is legal, like Atlanta.

    I don't think this is an issue. I think people just have a blind spot about the whole campus thing because it is a school; and that phrase guns at school conjures up images of children running around tripping over AK47's.

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  4. #54
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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    I know, but some think students should carry.
    If they can get a concealed license what is the problem

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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    With all due respect, Ethereal, I see this as an extension of the argument that CCW "will cause wild-west bloodbaths" or "people will be shooting people by mistake" in the more general sense.

    What is more crowded than the downtown of a big city? Yet there are quite a few large cities where CCW is permitted, and they have not experienced these problems.

    I was in Atlanta recently and spent quite a bit of time downtown packing my pistol; I was most assuredly not the only one. However this notion that when some criminal starts shooting, that there will be dozens of would-be heroes causing a general mass-gunfight and killing innocents by mistake... it hasn't happened, even in crowded big-city downtown areas where CCW is legal, like Atlanta.

    I don't think this is an issue. I think people just have a blind spot about the whole campus thing because it is a school; and that phrase guns at school conjures up images of children running around tripping over AK47's.
    I just think there needs to be some kind of organization within the school community; a standard of verbiage, escalation of force, tactics, etc - some kind of protocol.

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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    I thought the perp was a she?
    I was referring to Virginia Tech
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    If they can get a concealed license what is the problem
    Getting schools to allow it would be the biggest problem.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Very few states allow open carry of handguns in public places by persons without permits. Of those that do, I haven't noticed teenagers walking around a shopping center packing guns openly as a fashion statement. There is no basis for this argument.

    All but 6 states allow open carry. You don't see it because most places like schools have bans on guns.

    Last edited by USA_1; 02-13-10 at 05:44 PM.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    Getting schools to allow it would be the biggest problem.
    Either allow it or do like high schools and have metal detectors.

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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Either allow it or do like high schools and have metal detectors.
    Metal detectors it is.
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