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Thread: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

  1. #131
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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Cap, I looked at the top link and didn't see raw data or how the survey was conducted, or whether the sample was nationwide, etc. I'd have to have a few doubts.

    On the second link, there was some more data: national distribution, etc. But their numbers were odd: 42 million US households with guns? The latest figures I've heard were 80 to 90 million households.

    Also, at least one seems to be focused on registered guns...and most Southern states (and many midWest states) do not require guns to be registered. Not to mention, as the Turtle said, a lot of gun owners would be reluctant to tell some survey-taker what they had... I know I wouldn't answer such a survey. You never know for sure who you're talking to or what their agenda is, you see.

    On the whole I think this puts those studies in a somewhat dubious light, as to the accuracy of their stats.

    I've read the recent reports that certain aspects of brain development, specifically those relating to self-restraint and impulse control, tend not to reach full development until around 22-25yo. I won't dispute that; it makes sense to me. Yet I'm not sure that it is the whole story: we have plenty of evidence that 18-21 yo's are capable of handling enormous responsibility under many circumstances. The example of 18-21yo's serving in the military being one such example. Another would be, as some older posters have noted, that back in the 50's and early 60's many teens had ready access to guns and even brought hunting rifles to school, yet Columbine-type incidents were effectively unheard-of.

    As I said, I will not dispute that the average 25yo has better impulse control and ability to judge outcomes than the average 18-21yo; I'm sure that is generally true. I think the more relevant question is whether the average 21yo is perfectly capable of exercising functionally adequate impulse control and good judgement in regards to CCW.

    It would appear that at least 40 states have decided the answer to that question is "yes", because 21 is when CCW is allowed.

    Now if you want to argue that the average 21-22yo college student is less responsible than the average 21-22yo working-man or military enlistee... you might have a better case.

    But whose fault is that? Is it our society's fault for letting college be an extension of irresponsible adolescence, letting those young adults (they are not "kids") continue to act like 17yo party-animals, when some of their same-age generational compatriots are non-comms leading infantry squads in Tikrit, and some of their other same-age compatriots have a full-time job, bills, a spouse and children to take care of? Hmmmm.... food for thought perhaps.

    G.
    I placed in bold the key phrase. That is precisely what I am arguing, as I have repeatedly commented on the social/cultural pressures and differences on school campuses AND in today's society in general. I have also stated that a 21 year old serving in the military is in a completely different social/cultural environment, and therefore this would not apply. The brain research is accurate, however, situations can be triggers to the reactions I am indicating.
    Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 02-16-10 at 04:04 AM.
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  2. #132
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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Those surveys are notoriously inaccurate. Many gun owners refuse to answer such surveys accurately because they are rightly suspicious of the government or academics knowing what they have

    and furthermore there is a difference between 10 21 year olds each owning one gun vs 5 thirty year olds owning 4 guns each. You see people who own guns tend to own more as they get older. Very different matter.

    For example, the City of Cincinnati passed a law in 1989 requiring people to register certain "assault weapons". Less than 100 were registered. At the time I was general counsel for the largest NRA gun club in the USA and counsel for two of the 4 biggest dealers in greater Cincinnati. I knew for a fact that these two shops had sold close to a thousand weapons that required registration to people who lived within the jurisdiction of Cincinnati. Yet the mayor claimed there were only 100 or so said weapons in Cincinnati.

    People just ignored the now repealed silly law
    The numbers were percentages on persons in households. The number of guns were irrelevant. It was the ownership that was key.

    And if you dispute the numbers, let's see some of your own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #133
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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    By the way I am still waiting for proof that 21 year olds-the youngest age someone could legally obtain a CCW or CCH license in any state of the Union-are more prone to misusing legally carried guns compared to 24 year olds at a rate that has any significance. Since 45 states or so have determined that is the proper lower limit that sort of trumps the claims of "psychotherapists"

    If someone is mature enough to be able to contract (18) stand trial for capital murder (18), get married without parental consent (18 or lower in a few jurisdictions), enter the military, vote for politicians, then someone 3 years older is certainly mature enough to carry a weapon and millions of men have done that throughout our history in service to the country and didn't cause problems.

    The average age of an infantry soldier in Nam was what-19? of 2nd Lt's commanding platoons? 21-22.
    Firstly, I am talking about a specific scenario... guns on school campuses. Secondly, the research is fairly new... about 10-15 years old. Easily trumps any information you have presented on the actions of the age group we are discussing in the situation we are discussing. So, please, represent my argument accurately.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #134
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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Bottom line-200 years of a US military, 45 states with CCW permits all suggest that 21 year olds with licenses are perfectly capable of rational judgment vs what you claim are new studies.

    How many 21 year olds have served in the army and marines? That is a rather good data pool

    the fact is gun free zones are a magnet for active shooters. End of story



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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    The only problem I have about guns is forgetting to keep mine loaded.

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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    She was a left wing whacko.

    ‘Oddball’ portrait of Amy Bishop emerges - BostonHerald.com

    A family source said Bishop, a mother of four children - the youngest a third-grade boy - was a far-left political extremist who was “obsessed” with President Obama to the point of being off-putting.

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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    She was a left wing whacko.

    ‘Oddball’ portrait of Amy Bishop emerges - BostonHerald.com

    A family source said Bishop, a mother of four children - the youngest a third-grade boy - was a far-left political extremist who was “obsessed” with President Obama to the point of being off-putting.
    Does that mean super republican John List tainted george bush's administration.

    AMW | Feature | Notorious AMW Fugitive John List Dead at 82

    And, don't forget Ted Bundy who came from a prominent republican family.

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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    Does that mean super republican John List tainted george bush's administration.

    AMW | Feature | Notorious AMW Fugitive John List Dead at 82

    And, don't forget Ted Bundy who came from a prominent republican family.
    So did Bundy talk politics? Did List talk politics.

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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Is that an admission that most people these days are, generally, "bad people" to a far greater degree or commonality than was the case in, say, the 1950's or 60's?
    More likely it is a comment on our state of moral decay.
    Personally, I blame the boomers and their self-entitled 'you cant judge me' attitude.

  10. #140
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    Re: 3 Dead in Shooting at University of Alabama Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    More likely it is a comment on our state of moral decay.
    Personally, I blame the boomers and their self-entitled 'you cant judge me' attitude.
    So you blame everyone between the ages of 45 and 65? That's a big spread.
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