Page 26 of 29 FirstFirst ... 162425262728 ... LastLast
Results 251 to 260 of 285

Thread: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

  1. #251
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Government bonds are the standard by which all bonds are rated. Therefore, they strongly reflect the strength of a countries financial sector....
    Show how this proves the assertion.

  2. #252
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,263

    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quit acting like a little girl! Asking for someone to prove their opinion of how an alternative reality would have played out proves you have no desire to have an intellectual discussion. If you do not agree, the burden of proof is on you to show error (like I often do to you in regards to this subject matter).

    So either man up, or shut up. The choice is yours.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  3. #253
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Quit acting like a little girl!
    Um... you first.
    Prove your assertion.
    Your continued, predicted, avoidance of doing so at all costs only proves you have no desire to have an intellectual discussion.

    Asking for someone to prove their opinion...
    Its not an opinion -- you claimed it as a fact.

    So either man up, or shut up.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 02-17-10 at 05:40 PM.

  4. #254
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    We have a one term president in the White House. Bwuahahahaha
    Unfortunately, far too many on your side find this more important than fixing things.

  5. #255
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,263

    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Um... you first.
    Prove your assertion.
    You mean back up my opinion with facts and statements? I already did. You have not addressed them, and instead make tell me to "prove your opinion".

    Your continued, predicted, avoidance of doing so at all costs only proves you have no desire to have an intellectual discussion.
    All of the foremost experts on finance and economics share the same opinion. I even provided you with commentary from the former secretary of the treasury (Bush's guy) in which he shared the same sentiment.

    Its not an opinion -- you claimed it as a fact.
    Have you gotten your first visit from aunt flow? If i did claim it as fact, it is up to you to prove me wrong. All you have done the last few pages is bitch and moan. Not one bit of sound economic commentary.

    So either man up, or shut up.


    Do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  6. #256
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,263

    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Government bonds are the standard by which all bonds are rated. Therefore, they strongly reflect the strength of a countries financial sector.

    Lets look at a few graphs.



    Compare this to the 30's



    The 10 year treasury note



    The 30 yr bond



    Why did yields drop in all government bonds? The financial sector was running for shelter, putting money into the safest place possible, government bonds. Yields went negative on 1 month treasury bills. Banks were paying the government to use there money. This all happened because one investment bank, Lieman Brothers, collapsed. Do you think we could have allowed another large investment bank to collapse?
    Quality post and sound analysis.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  7. #257
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Show how this proves the assertion.
    So, first we have the housing bubble:



    As you can see, house prices were out of line with the market, and they eventaully fell.

    This fall caused many non-conforming loans to default.



    This caused banks to begin to lose money:



    The ABX index basically what banks expect to get out of a dollar of each type of loan.

    This caused banks to pull back from lending, to maintain enough capital:



    LIBOR is basically were banks lend to each other in dollars.

    The 3 month treasury is a government bond. Government bonds are considered risk free.

    These two are usually seperated by 30-50 basis points (a basis point is 1/100th if a percent). You can see here it went to over 2%.

    This basically shows there is an excessive amount of risk in the market. Banks do not want to lend to each other.



    Commercial paper is a money market security (meaning it matures in under 270 days) that is sold by large banks and corporations to get money for short term obligations. The spread basically shows the concern for default. This means banks are not able to get money for their short term obligations.

    So we have this vicious circle:

    1. Housing prices fall
    2. People defalt
    3. Banks lose money
    4. Banks stop lending.
    5. House prices fall more.


    This will continue until house prices stop falling and all of the bad loans have been purged from the market. So without any intervention, the market is stuck in this liquidity trap, leaving banks with a bunch of forclosure homes and no money to lend.

  8. #258
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    melbourne florida
    Last Seen
    09-24-15 @ 12:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    13,156

    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    How much trouble are we in when China is dumping our T-Bills?


    FT Alphaville Dumping US T-bills


    Foreign demand for US Treasury securities fell by a record amount in December as China purged some of its holdings of government debt, the US Treasury department said on Tuesday.

    China sold $34.2bn in US Treasury securities during the month… leaving Japan as the biggest holder of US government debt with $768.8bn. China overtook Japan as the largest holder in September 2008.

  9. #259
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,263

    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    how much trouble are we in when china is dumping our t-bills?


    ft alphaville dumping us t-bills


    foreign demand for us treasury securities fell by a record amount in december as china purged some of its holdings of government debt, the us treasury department said on tuesday.

    China sold $34.2bn in us treasury securities during the month… leaving japan as the biggest holder of us government debt with $768.8bn. China overtook japan as the largest holder in september 2008.
    2 Year Historic
    Treasury Yields


    The current yield on the two year is .85%

    So while you use the word "dump", it is not an accurate reflection of the situation. To dump the Treasuries would mean to sell at a rapid fire rate thereby devaluing their own holdings simultaneously. It is commonly referred to as "capital flight", and as yields suggest, this is not happening.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #260
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    This will continue until house prices stop falling and all of the bad loans have been purged from the market. So without any intervention, the market is stuck in this liquidity trap, leaving banks with a bunch of forclosure homes and no money to lend.
    Nifty. Nice charts, too.

    How does all of this necessarily -- any by necessarily, I mean that it WILL happen becaue it MUST happen -- lead to an economic condition as bad as or worse than the great depression, and that there is no chance of any other outcome or condition.

    BTW... Goldenboy thanks you for carrying his water for him -- its pretty clear you indeed have the grasp of the subject that he wants everyone to think he has.

Page 26 of 29 FirstFirst ... 162425262728 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •