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Thread: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

  1. #191
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    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Eventually it would

    But in the meantime more business would have gone under, from the banks to the auto industry (not just the big three but most of their suppliers as well.

    This would have resulted in more unemployement then we have now, leading to more foresclosures on homes, and even more banks going under.

    Overall there were two choices to be made. An extremely hard economic collapse, having massive unemployement, resulting in the loss of trillions of capital for everyone. This would last for about 3 years, but would have unemployment at levels higher then the great depression (and no unemployement/welfare programs to help people with). The economic and social hardships would be difficult to describe in actual harshness, but lets just say strong potential for revolution

    The second choice is what was choosen. To spread out the harm from the massive debt bubble over an extended period of time, and to spread it out to nearly everyone. This will last for at least 10 years, and economic growth will be muted for an extended period of time. 70's style stagflation is what should come to mind.

    Followed by economic growth and it would be fairly rapid
    It should be noted that the stagflation of the early 70's and 80's was the result of exogenous supply shocks. Barring a similar shock, stagflation does look to be on the horizon.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Yes, and even worse then what it is now

    Reagans admin did not have a debt bubble collapse as the cause of the recession

    Volker intentionally caused the Reagan recession to battle inflation and get it under control
    Nice try but notice Obama is not doing anything to help the private sector create jobs. The government can not get us out of a recession by spending. We need the private sector to hire people. What we have now is still job loss showing Obama's plan is not working. Obama is doing the same thing as they did during the depression which prolonged it. Obama will make this recession last longer than it should.

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    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Eventually it would

    But in the meantime more business would have gone under, from the banks to the auto industry (not just the big three but most of their suppliers as well.

    This would have resulted in more unemployement then we have now, leading to more foresclosures on homes, and even more banks going under.

    Overall there were two choices to be made. An extremely hard economic collapse, having massive unemployement, resulting in the loss of trillions of capital for everyone. This would last for about 3 years, but would have unemployment at levels higher then the great depression (and no unemployement/welfare programs to help people with). Followed by economic growth and it would be fairly rapid. The economic and social hardships would be difficult to describe in actual harshness, but lets just say strong potential for revolution. The second choice is what was choosen. To spread out the harm from the massive debt bubble over an extended period of time, and to spread it out to nearly everyone. This will last for at least 10 years, and economic growth will be muted for an extended period of time. 70's style stagflation is what should come to mind.
    You mean the choice of a control freak to take over banks and business.

    It did little to help. Big banks would have taken over smaller banks. Wait that happened. If the banks were so bad how is they are already paying back the money and showing large profits. All that in a year?

    Shows me the Obama administration made it seem worse than what it was. More of the Obama fear tactics at work.

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    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    You mean the choice of a control freak to take over banks and business.

    It did little to help. Big banks would have taken over smaller banks. Wait that happened. If the banks were so bad how is they are already paying back the money and showing large profits. All that in a year?

    Shows me the Obama administration made it seem worse than what it was. More of the Obama fear tactics at work.
    Um

    Do you not remember the majority of the banking bailouts takeovers were done under the Bush Admin, not the Obama admin

    The banks have recieved hundreds of billions of dollars in direct and indirect aid

    The AIG bailout provided 180 billion dollars to worldwide banks, banks that could have gone under without that 180 billion of government money.

    The fed has increased its balance sheet from just a few hundred billion to over 2 trillion dollars, most of that increase is from mortgages that banks would have had to declare as loss's on their balance sheet.

    The banks are also reaping massive profits from buyint US government Tbills using money borrowed from the fed. Gaining profits from the US taxpayer.

    All the bank profits are due to government actions in the financial industry. Without the government actions over the last 3 years, not one of the big banks would be around today

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    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Um

    Do you not remember the majority of the banking bailouts takeovers were done under the Bush Admin, not the Obama admin

    The banks have recieved hundreds of billions of dollars in direct and indirect aid

    The AIG bailout provided 180 billion dollars to worldwide banks, banks that could have gone under without that 180 billion of government money.

    The fed has increased its balance sheet from just a few hundred billion to over 2 trillion dollars, most of that increase is from mortgages that banks would have had to declare as loss's on their balance sheet.

    The banks are also reaping massive profits from buyint US government Tbills using money borrowed from the fed. Gaining profits from the US taxpayer.

    All the bank profits are due to government actions in the financial industry. Without the government actions over the last 3 years, not one of the big banks would be around today
    No they were done by Obama. Bush gave money Obama mad demands and put on stipulations.

    All was the government you are drunk on the Koolaid.

    Banks would have survived. Notice Obama was selective what banks he let fail.

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    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    No they were done by Obama. Bush gave money Obama mad demands and put on stipulations.

    All was the government you are drunk on the Koolaid.

    Banks would have survived. Notice Obama was selective what banks he let fail.
    CBC News - Money - U.S. government announces AIG bailout plan

    AIG Bailout Sept 2008 before Obama was elected

    Bear Stearns government assisted takeover in March 2008, before Obama was elected

    JPMorgan Buys Bear on the Cheap

    Lehman Bro failure in Sept 2008 before Obama was elected

    Lehman files for bankruptcy, plans to sell units | Reuters


    Tarp was passed in Oct 2008 before Obama was elected

    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program[/ame]


    Fannie Mae Freddie Mac, both placed under government conservatorship in Sept 08. Before Obama was elected

    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fannie_Mae[/ame]

    The only bailout that was specifically pushed by Obama was the auto sector bailout. All others were started by Bush and co

    I suggest getting off the koolaid yourself and starting getting the actual facts, rather then talk radio bull manure


    Now if you continue to suggest Obama pushed Bush into making those bailouts before the election even took place, I would have to ask,

    Did Bush fix the election to get Obama into office. Otherwise why not do what McCaine wanted?
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 02-16-10 at 07:46 PM.

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    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    In case anyone missed the memo.....

    Markets do not always self correct.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    CBC News - Money - U.S. government announces AIG bailout plan

    AIG Bailout Sept 2008 before Obama was elected

    Bear Stearns government assisted takeover in March 2008, before Obama was elected

    JPMorgan Buys Bear on the Cheap

    Lehman Bro failure in Sept 2008 before Obama was elected

    Lehman files for bankruptcy, plans to sell units | Reuters


    Tarp was passed in Oct 2008 before Obama was elected

    Troubled Asset Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Fannie Mae Freddie Mac, both placed under government conservatorship in Sept 08. Before Obama was elected

    Fannie Mae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The only bailout that was specifically pushed by Obama was the auto sector bailout. All others were started by Bush and co

    I suggest getting off the koolaid yourself and starting getting the actual facts, rather then talk radio bull manure


    Now if you continue to suggest Obama pushed Bush into making those bailouts before the election even took place, I would have to ask,

    Did Bush fix the election to get Obama into office. Otherwise why not do what McCaine wanted?
    Bailouts yes. Obama put stipulations on the money and demands. In some cases he fired people and put his choice in place.

    Bush did not do this he is not a control freak like the man in the White house today

    This money was put there by the democrat led congress. Bush made sure he left half the money for Obama.
    Last edited by ptif219; 02-16-10 at 07:55 PM.

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    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    In case anyone missed the memo.....

    Markets do not always self correct.
    Now you will say Obama did it?

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    Re: Obama ‘Agnostic’ on Deficit Cuts, Won’t Prejudge Tax Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Bailouts yes. Obama put stipulations on the money and demands. In some cases he fired people and put his choice in place.

    Bush did not do this he is not a control freak like the man in the White house today

    This money was put there by the democrat led congress.
    If the business did not want government to interfere then they should not have come crawling to the government for money.

    And yes lenders of money have the right to put conditions on the corporations to be able to get that money and to keep the loan. The government lent GM money, and felt that the CEO in charge was not the one that would see the government getting paid back, and said either he goes or no government money

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