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Feds push for tracking cell phones

I am just waiting for micro chips to be readily available for implant with gift certificates to Wal-mart as incentives.

Am i worried? Hell no, the technology to track cell phones has been around for quite a long time. However... is this only the beginning? The so called new wave of commerce will allow cellular phones/pda/smart phones to make payments. As information technology advances, there is a major security risk in centralizing individual data streams. I.E.... The DoD didn't even encrypt their drones:doh
 
Meh,two words Wal-mart and trac phones.
 
Phantom said:
Any true liberal will be against this. It violates our constitutional right to privacy, like the patriot act.
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Will those Liberals insist on PBO's resignation, or impeachment? Just wondering.

BTW, let's not act as if the Liberals are the bright shining light guiding the way for absolute liberty of the American people. Liberals are the same folks that are pushing for the fairness doctrine and abolition of the 2nd Amendment.
 
Phantom said:
Any true liberal will be against this. It violates our constitutional right to privacy, like the patriot act.
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Grrr. Pet Peeve alert.

Do you hate the Patriot Act, apparently the entire act, because it violates the right of privacy or because some liberal blog in recent years told you its bad and highlighted a few points and so that's all you care about...

Cause if its the former why are you not equally railing against the FISA legislation along with Title III of the 1968 Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Acts, which both acted as the foundations for what Patriot did and extended in most ways.

Of course, those are generally ignored by bloggers post Patriot because I mean....they're old, they're not tied to Bush, they're not big buzz words, and if we focus on them people may realize that the vast majority of the Patriot Act was updating 30+ year old legislation into the digital age, and that'd REALLY **** up their rhetoric and muck stirring.

[/rant]

In regards to this, I'm not sure how I stand. Is tracking a search and siezure if its done through finding out your cell phones location? Is it illegal for government to check camera records from ATM's and street cams to see if they spot your liscense plate without a warrant? Can they tail and follow you without a warrant? Can they place some kind of tracking or monitoring device on your car without one?

Honest questions there, I'm not 100% sure about any of them.

I would lean on yes, there should probably be a warrant to do this, but I would say the burden of proof should be extremely low to get it just for tracking.

Also it has time working against its favor when compared to the more questionable portions of the Patriot Act. Historically during times of great crisis this country has shown itself, time and time again, willing to let the scale tip to the side of security and from that point it slowly tilts back towards the "freedom" side till the next major crisis.

In this case, I don't know if there's really a crisis enough that the political will to allow for such a thing will be found understandable in the context of history.

I think ultimately I would be against this, just as I am for the continued repeal and sunsetting of various Patriot Act provisions.
 
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apdst said:
They're not listening in on the actual call. They're only tracking the phone's location. It's not a huge invasion of my privacy if the government knows that I left my house and went to the Piggly Wiggly, then came back home.

I think you're all blowing this totally out of proportion.
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So the government tracking millions of citizens every movement without their knowledge or consent and having the ability of logging things like what time you wake up, go to the bathroom, eat breakfast, watch TV, go to work, etc. IS NOT a violation of privacy?

So when are you going to allow the government to install that non-privacy violating camera in your house?
 
apdst said:
Will those Liberals insist on PBO's resignation, or impeachment? Just wondering.

BTW, let's not act as if the Liberals are the bright shining light guiding the way for absolute liberty of the American people. Liberals are the same folks that are pushing for the fairness doctrine and abolition of the 2nd Amendment.
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Like partisans do from all sides of the spectrum, those Liberals that are ignorant will justify these actions because it's someone from their side doing it.
 
Gibberish said:
...the ability of logging things like what time you wake up, go to the bathroom, eat breakfast, watch TV, go to work, etc. IS NOT a violation of privacy?
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Care to explain how tracking my cell phone is going to tell the government when I go take a ****?

As I said, blown out of proportion.
 
Gibberish said:
Like partisans do from all sides of the spectrum, those Liberals that are ignorant will justify these actions because it's someone from their side doing it.
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Liberals are, for the most part, way more partisan than any other political leaning.
 
apdst said:
Care to explain how tracking my cell phone is going to tell the government when I go take a ****?

As I said, blown out of proportion.
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GPS tracking. My phone's GPS knowns exactly where I am within 10 meters and updates in real time as I move around.

The point isn't the action. It's that allowing the government to track the movement of citizens without their knowledge and consent is a gateway to much more authoritative actions and quite frankly the government has no business in my business.

We need a smaller government, not larger and more totalitarian.
 
apdst said:
Liberals are, for the most part, way more partisan than any other political leaning.
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Liberals are just as partisan as those on the far right. The farther you go in either lean the more ignorant the people get.
 
Gibberish said:
Liberals are just as partisan as those on the far right. The farther you go in either lean the more ignorant the people get.
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True,all you have to do is see this tread and it will confirm that.:2wave:
 
apdst said:
Liberals are, for the most part, way more partisan than any other political leaning.
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Wow....

Coming from a neoconservative, ill take that opinion with a grain of salt.
 
The Obama administration says there is no reasonable expectation for privacy because it is a cell phone? WTF kind of bull**** is that.

This is garbage without a warrent.
 
apdst said:
They're not listening in on the actual call. They're only tracking the phone's location. It's not a huge invasion of my privacy if the government knows that I left my house and went to the Piggly Wiggly, then came back home.

I think you're all blowing this totally out of proportion.
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Frankly I think it's worse than listening to a call, which usually is a lot about nothing.
 
Phantom said:
Any true liberal will be against this. It violates our constitutional right to privacy, like the patriot act.
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Yet Obama is able to do warrantless wire taps.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/washington/16fisa.html?_r=1

In a rare public ruling, a secret federal appeals court has said telecommunications companies must cooperate with the government to intercept international phone calls and e-mail of American citizens suspected of being spies or terrorists.

The ruling came in a case involving an unidentified company’s challenge to 2007 legislation that expanded the president’s legal power to conduct wiretapping without warrants for intelligence purposes.

But the ruling, handed down in August 2008 by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review and made public Thursday, did not directly address whether President Bush was within his constitutional powers in ordering domestic wiretapping without warrants, without first getting Congressional approval, after the terrorist attacks of 2001.

Several legal experts cautioned that the ruling had limited application, since it dealt narrowly with the carrying out of a law that had been superseded by new legislation. But the ruling is still the first by an appeals court that says the Fourth Amendment’s requirement for warrants does not apply to the foreign collection of intelligence involving Americans. That finding could have broad implications for United States national security law.

The court ruled that eavesdropping on Americans believed to be agents of a foreign power “possesses characteristics that qualify it for such an exception.”

Bruce M. Selya, the chief judge of the review court, wrote in the opinion that “our decision recognizes that where the government has instituted several layers of serviceable safeguards to protect individuals against unwarranted harms and to minimize incidental intrusions, its efforts to protect national security should not be frustrated by the courts.”

The three-judge court, which hears rare appeals from the full Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, addressed provisions of the Protect America Act, passed by Congress in 2007 amid the controversy over Mr. Bush’s program of wiretapping without warrants. It found that the administration had put in place sufficient privacy safeguards to meet the constitutional standards of the Fourth Amendment’s ban on unreasonable searches. Because of that, the company had to cooperate, the court said.
 
It was wrong when the Bush administration started doing this. It's wrong now.

Let me guess: You assumed that liberals would try to justify this on some twisted manner because we accept everything Obama does because he is our "savior?"
 
Deuce said:
It was wrong when the Bush administration started doing this. It's wrong now.

Let me guess: You assumed that liberals would try to justify this on some twisted manner because we accept everything Obama does because he is our "savior?"
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When this happened the silence from the left was deafening and it still is.

When it was brought under Bush what outrage shows the double standard.
 
ptif219 said:
When this happened the silence from the left was deafening and it still is.

When it was brought under Bush what outrage shows the double standard.
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tracking cell phone whereabouts and warrantless wiretapping are 2 different things. that said, i don't think cell phone tracking is a good idea.

it seems that many in this thread agree with me, liberals even.
 
ptif219 said:
When this happened the silence from the left was deafening and it still is.

When it was brought under Bush what outrage shows the double standard.
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Where was the conservative outrage about increasing spending and expanding government during the Bush administration?
 
liblady said:
tracking cell phone whereabouts and warrantless wiretapping are 2 different things.
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How are they different???

In one case they are listening in on phone calls. In the other they are tracking your movements. Each is an invasion by the government to privacy. Each should not be available without a warrant.

Any time the government wants to get into my business, they know where my home is. They don't need to know my whereabouts 24/7 without reasonable cause.
 
Blackdog said:
How are they different???

In one case they are listening in on phone calls. In the other they are tracking your movements. Each is an invasion by the government to privacy. Each should not be available without a warrant.

Any time the government wants to get into my business, they know where my home is. They don't need to know my whereabouts 24/7 without reasonable cause.
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though i believe they are different, i also believe neither should be allowed.

the tracking doesn't involve knowing YOUR whereabouts, necessarily, it involves detecting a pattern.
 
liblady said:
though i believe they are different, i also believe neither should be allowed.

the tracking doesn't involve knowing YOUR whereabouts, necessarily, it involves detecting a pattern.
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They don't need to know my patterns or anyone else's without probable cause.

They can also get your exact location from a working cell phone. Don't you watch "NCIS?" ;)
 
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