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Thread: Feds push for tracking cell phones

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    Re: Feds push for tracking cell phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    They don't need to know my patterns or anyone else's without probable cause.

    They can also get your exact location from a working cell phone. Don't you watch "NCIS?"
    nah...i like csi.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Feds push for tracking cell phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    We need a smaller government, not larger and more totalitarian.
    This doesn't make the government larger and more totalitarian. It makes it more efficient and less bureaucratic by not having to go through endless precautions to get something as trivial as information of where someone happened to be standing when they made a phone call and possibly end up not getting that information at all and making it harder to catch criminals.

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    Re: Feds push for tracking cell phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    This doesn't make the government larger and more totalitarian. It makes it more efficient and less bureaucratic by not having to go through endless precautions to get something as trivial as information of where someone happened to be standing when they made a phone call and possibly end up not getting that information at all and making it harder to catch criminals.
    I said it leads to the government being larger and more totalitarian. Allowing the government to easily monitor, track and catalog the everyday and private actions and conversations of it's citizens to be used in case they happen to break the law at some point in their lives is a horrible violation of freedom.

    Liberty should not be sacrificed for supposed security.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: Feds push for tracking cell phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    I said it leads to the government being larger and more totalitarian. Allowing the government to easily monitor, track and catalog the everyday and private actions and conversations of it's citizens to be used in case they happen to break the law at some point in their lives is a horrible violation of freedom.
    And they're neither tracking conversations in this case nor monitoring people's "everyday private actions". They're finding out where people were when they made a phone call. Look at the 4th Amendment, and tell me how this violates that.

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    Re: Feds push for tracking cell phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    And they're neither tracking conversations in this case nor monitoring people's "everyday private actions". They're finding out where people were when they made a phone call.
    First it was just finding out who was calling who. Now it's just finding out where people were when they made a phone call. Next it will be just finding out whether certain keywords are mentioned during the phone call. Then it will be just finding out what the overall conversation is about. Pretty soon you'll be saying, "At least they aren't using rubber gloves." Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Look at the 4th Amendment, and tell me how this violates that.
    Easy. We are protected by the 4th Amendment from "unreasonable" search without a warrant. Those of us opposed to these measures believe they are "unreasonable" unless a warrant has been issued. So it all comes down to how we define "unreasonable."

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    Re: Feds push for tracking cell phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    And they're neither tracking conversations in this case nor monitoring people's "everyday private actions". They're finding out where people were when they made a phone call. Look at the 4th Amendment, and tell me how this violates that.
    Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

    You asked.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Feds push for tracking cell phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    And they're neither tracking conversations in this case nor monitoring people's "everyday private actions". They're finding out where people were when they made a phone call. Look at the 4th Amendment, and tell me how this violates that.
    It's really sad when you are actively trying to defend the government's right to snoop and monitor people's activities.

    GPS is not based on phone calls. What the government will do is catalog your location every few minutes and match that up to where you say you were during any activity, not just phone calls.

    Ten years after this passes the government will find out that some people are failing to keep their phone on their person at all times and request everyone where a tracking bracelet or insert a chip directly in their body.

    Yes it's an exaggeration but it is to emphasis the point that there is NO PURPOSE to even consider going down the road of tracking law abiding citizens just in case they might break the law in the future.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: Feds push for tracking cell phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Where was the conservative outrage about increasing spending and expanding government during the Bush administration?
    All over the place. Many like me said Bush was to liberal and that the reason the GOP lost congress in 2006 is because they were spending like drunken democrats.

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    Re: Feds push for tracking cell phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    It's really sad when you are actively trying to defend the government's right to snoop and monitor people's activities.
    Considering we've been doing stuff like this for pretty much all of our history, and the courts have yet to strike it down, and that there's almost always approval from the DoJ involved, and most of the arguments against it are emotional ones from people without legal training, it's hard for me to believe the cries of those who say that this kind of thing is not constitutional.

    EDIT: And I've never been one for the "slippery slope" argument.
    Last edited by Dav; 02-12-10 at 07:31 PM.

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    Re: Feds push for tracking cell phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Yes it's an exaggeration but it is to emphasis the point that there is NO PURPOSE to even consider going down the road of tracking law abiding citizens just in case they might break the law in the future.
    The people in this case were not law-abiding citizens.

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