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Thread: Guards stand by during brutal attack

  1. #131
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    Re: Guards stand by during brutal attack

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    I can't speak for some states but using your foot on some one especially the head is assault with a deadly weapon, and risk to life can be meant with deadly force.
    No in all states you cannot draw a weapon on a 15 years old girl in a fight with another 15 year old girl. Unless a weapon was clear and present you cannot in any way use deadly force.

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Besides I wouldn't shoot to kill, although in this circumstance that can't be guaranteed.
    Does not matter. Drawing down on unarmed minors is frowned upon.

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    I would be willing to take that risk. If this happened in Texas this assault could have be meant with deadly force, and even in Massachusetts the same can apply but you best have a license to carry..
    No, even in Texas. What part of "you cannot draw a weapon on an unarmed minor girl without any weapon at all" are you missing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #132
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    Re: Guards stand by during brutal attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    If I was there I would jump in to help you. Then it would be 8 to 2. Then if there was another equal minded person it would be 8 to 3.

    But true like others say you most likely might be on your own. But what if everyone there jumped in to lend a hand? What if people said this crap wasn't going to happen on their streets.
    This would work well in utopia, but we don't live there. And outside of criminal charges, the law suits brought against you by the parents of the girl you drew down on should be enough to at least make you stop and think before jumping in to help some knucklehead stupid enough to draw down on an unarmed 15 year old.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 02-17-10 at 09:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #133
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    Re: Guards stand by during brutal attack

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    You do that; and if a couple of those guys had a guns, a firefight ensued and a stray bullet from one of those guys hit and killed a 3-yo girl on a nearby bus; I'd have no problem charging the shooter with murder and you with manslaughter.
    I'd have no problem charging the shooter with murder and you with manslaughter
    So be it, I would still help and take my chances in court, although it's attitudes such as yours is why people don't help. Besides gunfights are usually one sided.

    This man helped and he walked in the a state with one of the strictest gun laws, BTW he did the right thing and he had balls and no charges where brought forth..
    Patient fatally shot after stabbing Boston psychiatrist - Local News Updates - The Boston Globe

    Here is another man who had balls to do something, no charged brought forth.
    Pasadena man fatally shoots burglary suspects | Houston & Texas News | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle


    So you see from the bluest of blue states to the reddest of red states, people are fed up with crime. You may want to charge a person such as myself with manslaughter, but I will leave it up to my peers who place final judgement on me.

  4. #134
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    Re: Guards stand by during brutal attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No in all states you cannot draw a weapon on a 15 years old girl in a fight with another 15 year old girl. Unless a weapon was clear and present you cannot in any way use deadly force.



    Does not matter. Drawing down on unarmed minors is frowned upon.



    No, even in Texas. What part of "you cannot draw a weapon on an unarmed minor girl without any weapon at all" are you missing?
    What part of assault with a deadly weapon don't you understand, non the less I'll take my chances. Kicking with the foot in the head is considered a weapon in most states but, not all. Btw I should have mentioned I wouldn't step in until the kicking to the head started. Fist fights yes, non of my business and if it becomes my business I would step in but, without a weapon.
    here is a google search in regards to kicking in a fight..which is a deadly weapon.
    [ame=http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS307US308&q=Is+kicking+to+the+hea d+assault+with+a+weapon]Is kicking to the head assault with a weapon - Google Search[/ame]

  5. #135
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    Re: Guards stand by during brutal attack

    Look, I sympathize strongly with the desire to jump in and do something. I'm not going to say that I would not have intervened, as I have a history of doing stupid **** in the name of protecting others... but pausing to make a realistic appraisal of your risks in intervention isn't cowardice, it is prudence.

    But, do recognize that from a purely pragmatic viewpoint, jumping in here is taking a big risk. You're going to end up being scrutinized by law enforcement at a minimum; you may be charged; you might even have to stand trial, depending. At best that can cost you more money than you can afford to pay; losing your house and everything you own and having your salary taken-from for twenty years is possible if you lose in civil suit; at worst you could do time in prison away from your own family. It happens.

    You have to be aware that if you involve yourself other people might jump in, and the situation could escalate and become an armed battle.

    Immediately pulling a gun on a 15yo girl engaged in an unarmed brawl with another 15yo girl is a fairly extreme reaction. Granted, from a purely tactical standpoint taking control through the threat of overwhelming firepower has its points, but legally you're putting yourself in a very precarious position. Playing the hero seems very noble until you're doing 15 years in the State pen in the company of people you'd rather not spend 15 minutes with.

    A more moderate approach would be to move close to the fight and yell at the kicker, 'HEY, that's enough! Whatcha trying to do, kill her? Cut it out! The cops are on the way already!'

    That might be enough to cause the perps to unazz the AO, as they probably prefer not to encounter the police.

    Or it might not... maybe some of the bystanders will threaten you and warn you to stay out of it. This may give you a chance to evaluate the situation and see what kind of opposition you're looking at before you take it any further.

    The next step might be physically interposing myself between the girl doing the kicking and the girl that's down. I ain't scared of getting hit by some 15yo girl, I'd be glad to take some of the blows to keep her from kicking the other girl any more... but I have to be aware that the attacking girl just might pull a knife or gun if I do this, and I have to be prepared to deal with that and to accept that the end consequences of my intervention may be very serious. This could include losing my life, or all that I own, or my freedom. I also have to consider the effect on my family/dependents if I am killed, sued into poverty, or imprisoned for a long term.

    If you still think it is worth it, in a situation that isn't necessarily life-or-death, then by all means go for it. Just make sure you're fully aware of what you're getting into, and what the final cost might be.

    The difference between someone who is a professional in use-of-force situations (ie violent crime), and an amateur, could be summed up as the ability to make a rational assessment of a situation, rather than an emotional one. If you make a rational assessment and believe it is worth the risk, more power to you. I'm not sure what I would have done if I'd been there at the time; it would depend on my on-the-spot assessment of the situation.

    In closing... When the machine gun opens fire from a covered position, Private Hothead charges it in the open and gets heroically blasted to pieces... Sergeant Old-Pro takes cover and calls in an airstrike while smoking a cigar.

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  6. #136
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    Re: Guards stand by during brutal attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Look, I sympathize strongly with the desire to jump in and do something. I'm not going to say that I would not have intervened, as I have a history of doing stupid **** in the name of protecting others... but pausing to make a realistic appraisal of your risks in intervention isn't cowardice, it is prudence.

    But, do recognize that from a purely pragmatic viewpoint, jumping in here is taking a big risk. You're going to end up being scrutinized by law enforcement at a minimum; you may be charged; you might even have to stand trial, depending. At best that can cost you more money than you can afford to pay; losing your house and everything you own and having your salary taken-from for twenty years is possible if you lose in civil suit; at worst you could do time in prison away from your own family. It happens.

    You have to be aware that if you involve yourself other people might jump in, and the situation could escalate and become an armed battle.

    Immediately pulling a gun on a 15yo girl engaged in an unarmed brawl with another 15yo girl is a fairly extreme reaction. Granted, from a purely tactical standpoint taking control through the threat of overwhelming firepower has its points, but legally you're putting yourself in a very precarious position. Playing the hero seems very noble until you're doing 15 years in the State pen in the company of people you'd rather not spend 15 minutes with.

    A more moderate approach would be to move close to the fight and yell at the kicker, 'HEY, that's enough! Whatcha trying to do, kill her? Cut it out! The cops are on the way already!'

    That might be enough to cause the perps to unazz the AO, as they probably prefer not to encounter the police.

    Or it might not... maybe some of the bystanders will threaten you and warn you to stay out of it. This may give you a chance to evaluate the situation and see what kind of opposition you're looking at before you take it any further.

    The next step might be physically interposing myself between the girl doing the kicking and the girl that's down. I ain't scared of getting hit by some 15yo girl, I'd be glad to take some of the blows to keep her from kicking the other girl any more... but I have to be aware that the attacking girl just might pull a knife or gun if I do this, and I have to be prepared to deal with that and to accept that the end consequences of my intervention may be very serious. This could include losing my life, or all that I own, or my freedom. I also have to consider the effect on my family/dependents if I am killed, sued into poverty, or imprisoned for a long term.

    If you still think it is worth it, in a situation that isn't necessarily life-or-death, then by all means go for it. Just make sure you're fully aware of what you're getting into, and what the final cost might be.

    The difference between someone who is a professional in use-of-force situations (ie violent crime), and an amateur, could be summed up as the ability to make a rational assessment of a situation, rather than an emotional one. If you make a rational assessment and believe it is worth the risk, more power to you. I'm not sure what I would have done if I'd been there at the time; it would depend on my on-the-spot assessment of the situation.

    In closing... When the machine gun opens fire from a covered position, Private Hothead charges it in the open and gets heroically blasted to pieces... Sergeant Old-Pro takes cover and calls in an airstrike while smoking a cigar.
    Now this makes the most sense, Goshin..thanks, I was just poking the hornets nest a bit. Now that said, yes I would do a risk assessment, and yes I did state I would give a warning and if I got a reaction to that warning I would follow up on the warning. Odds are by what you suggested would probably be all that would be required. Lastly, if the perp didn't stop kicking into the other girls head even after warnings, something would have to be done. I realize it is easy to say what I would do from behind this monitor but, I have been not only behind the gun but also in front it. If I had a uof doubt, then I would never even consider pulling a weapon.

    Kicking to the head can kill very easily, a assessment has to be done and quickly, once made whomever wishing to get involved would have to act quickly. That girl in the video I assume was OK, she was lucky...this time.
    Last edited by deltabtry; 02-18-10 at 12:44 AM.

  7. #137
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    Re: Guards stand by during brutal attack

    I take it all back-
    It appears the little animal deserved to have her head kicked in.....
    Local News | Teen beaten in tunnel accused in two attacks | Seattle Times Newspaper
    I just hope that her prior acts nullify any lawsuit against anyone.....
    Last edited by Partisan; 02-18-10 at 11:59 AM.

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    Re: Guards stand by during brutal attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    This **** happens amongst the animals on a daily basis here in the heart of deepest, darkest Libtardia, this one just happened to get caught on film......
    Go to the corner of Third & Pine on any day & you will see the jetsam & flotsam of failed Libtard policy.....
    This type of scum is the reason I carry a gun to work everyday.....
    To stand idly by while a prone, defenseless person is head stomped isn't human either........
    *Puts Partisan on ignore*

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    Re: Guards stand by during brutal attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    Wonder if they have "Good Samaritan" Laws in that area? Hope so. Those guards need to be arrested.
    The Good Samaritan laws protect the person who attempts to help the injured party. It wouldn't be a basis for arresting those who did nothing (unless one of the security guards had put the girl into the situation she was in--then there is a duty to act).

    I see someone else addressed this.
    Last edited by aps; 02-18-10 at 12:15 PM.

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    Re: Guards stand by during brutal attack

    Personally, this whole scene sickens me. Okay, I can understand their not wanting to get involved but why wasn't anyone calling 911 immediately?

    For me, I would have had to intervene, even if it was going to subject me to getting hit. I could not stand there and do nothing. I could not walk away and tell myself not to get involved. I would have to do what I could to protect that poor girl. I wouldn't look to fight with any of those animals who were punching and kicking her.

    I just can't fathom having that much anger towards anyone where I could punch them over and over and kick them and STOMP on them. Do these kids have consciences? They can't. They simply can't. I won't even watch the video because I know it will make me sick.

    Nothing, and I mean nothing, even remotely resembling this ever occurred when I was in middle or high school. Thank goodness I grew up in a small town with decent human beings.

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