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Gang interventionist gunned down after confronting tagger

Do you have some data supporting that as a realistic approach?

No, just common sense and a gander at the article in the OP. Giving credibility to gang members is no better than giving miranda rights to terrorists. Both are impotent approaches to solving the problem.

Daryl Gates had the right approach in Los Angeles, but the PC'ers came out in force against it, nevermind the drop in gang activity that Gates's plan produced.
 
nevermind the drop in gang activity that Gates's plan produced.

Countries that cut people's hands off for stealing also have lower theft rates. Just because something drops the crime rate, doesn't mean that's the best solution nor does it mean we should do it here in the U.S.
 
Do you have some data supporting that as a realistic approach?
ever heard of Elliot Ness, read his bio.

here another link wiki..sorry using wiki.


[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Ness]Eliot Ness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Countries that cut people's hands off for stealing also have lower theft rates. Just because something drops the crime rate, doesn't mean that's the best solution nor does it mean we should do it here in the U.S.
what would you propose, I am sure anyone is open to a good idea, I am.
 
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what would propose, I am sure anyone is open to a good idea, I am.

I agree that there needs to be tougher enforcement, however, some suggestions swing all the way from the left to the far right.

Tougher and longer community service could be done for starters. Education in this country is also part of the problem. The education system suchs because too many people focus (and blame) the schools to teach their kids about morals and what is right and wrong.
 
I agree that there needs to be tougher enforcement, however, some suggestions swing all the way from the left to the far right.

Tougher and longer community service could be done for starters. Education in this country is also part of the problem. The education system suchs because too many people focus (and blame) the schools to teach their kids about morals and what is right and wrong.
This is what I proposed on another forum awhile ago, and I am not as mean as you may think but, I do know when to draw the line.

If a gangster is caught committing a felony:

I would sentence to hard labor and education far away from their environment. There wouldn't be sentencing guideline, the condition of their release would to be obtain a H.S. diploma..not a G.E.D. and 2 years of trade or higher education. Job placement would be required for 5 years overseas. If this is completed then they get released with a clean record, no marks what's so ever. The record would only be known to the courts and must be released if caught committing another crime, no plea agreements or omitting of record.

Now if the gangster commits another crime, then all will be washed down the drain, and he will serve no less than 20 years. Of course this will only apply to felonies. Now this will leave him a opportunity to be a active and law abiding citizen..,his choice.
 
Where have you seen 12-year-olds joining the LK? What neighborhood?

You are aware that any made member and their offspring are considered Latin Kings? There was a kid I went to highschool with and he was a Latin King. Why? Because his parents were so that made him a Latin King and he showed it(black and yellow(though he claimed that that shirt was gold not yellow, it was yellow trust me) are their colors). He was proud to be a king, and unfortuanately a lot of mexican kids wanted to be his friend because they wanted in. This kid had a brother and his brother was a LK. He was young, 12. So yes I have seen a Latin King that was 12. And I don't live in a bad neighborhood. If you believe that the Latin Kings are only in Chicago and not the surrounding suburbs you are mistaken.
 
It isn't hard to firgure out the gangs and who they are, they mark themselves with tatoo's, where colors etc.,,that's who you target. This country had to do the same thing in the 18th and early part of the twenth century, with gangs out of control, and we haven't turned into a police state today.

They went after them legally in the 20th century and not just killing anyone associated. They actually had to commit a crime. The 18th century gang situation was very different.

Freedom of association is guaranteed by our Constitution.

Why don't you learn a little about what drives youths to gangs ...

"The Crips were formed out of the poor socio-economic and repressive conditions which African-Americans living in Los Angeles were subject to in the late 1960's. As police continued to jail and kill black youths in seeking to destroy the Black Panther Party, The Crips were formed in 1969 by Raymond Washington, loosely acting as a community organization which aimed to help disenfranchised African-American communities of L.A. The Bloods quickly followed, with a mandate to protect the community from external violence. [12] As job cuts continued to rise and employers began to hire from the cheaper labour pool of the expanding Latino immigrant community, [13] unemployment rates of African-American men reached as high as 50% in several areas of South Central Los Angeles, [14] opening up large recruitment markets for the burgeoning gangs. - [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_the_United_States]Gangs in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Where did Pete go? I'm still waiting for his comment that there is no gang violence in America to be supported. :mrgreen:
 
Of course, we wouldn't want to stereotype a gang member by any means.

When it comes to the 1 person in the article, yes it is.

Next time actually read what I said in context. What a concept!
 
It isn't hard to firgure out the gangs and who they are, they mark themselves with tatoo's, where colors etc.,,that's who you target. This country had to do the same thing in the 18th and early part of the twenth century, with gangs out of control, and we haven't turned into a police state today.

Yes we have. All you need to do is be Hispanic or Black in an inner city neighborhood.

I lived in the inner city and I was a police officer as well. I have seen both sides.

You are wrong, period.
 
They went after them legally in the 20th century and not just killing anyone associated. They actually had to commit a crime. The 18th century gang situation was very different.

Freedom of association is guaranteed by our Constitution.

Why don't you learn a little about what drives youths to gangs ...

"The Crips were formed out of the poor socio-economic and repressive conditions which African-Americans living in Los Angeles were subject to in the late 1960's. As police continued to jail and kill black youths in seeking to destroy the Black Panther Party, The Crips were formed in 1969 by Raymond Washington, loosely acting as a community organization which aimed to help disenfranchised African-American communities of L.A. The Bloods quickly followed, with a mandate to protect the community from external violence. [12] As job cuts continued to rise and employers began to hire from the cheaper labour pool of the expanding Latino immigrant community, [13] unemployment rates of African-American men reached as high as 50% in several areas of South Central Los Angeles, [14] opening up large recruitment markets for the burgeoning gangs. - Gangs in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Exactly and I wasn't advocating any other style of law enforcement but, when meant with force will be responded with force..overwhelming force. Elliot Ness did exactly that and it was effective. His investigation where proactive and aggressive where as today there are not. Also the community, courts where actually on the side of the law and no plea deals where handed down. Go back further in time with the Texas rangers and U.S. Marshalls with gangs from Mexico and range wars with the cattlemen, even more aggressive tactics where used and also very effective. Gen Patton's days as a Junior officer with Gen. Sherman with border incursions by Pancho Villa also where very effective.
 
Exactly and I wasn't advocating any other style of law enforcement but, when meant with force will be responded with force..overwhelming force. Elliot Ness did exactly that and it was effective. His investigation where proactive and aggressive where as today there are not. Also the community, courts where actually on the side of the law and no plea deals where handed down. Go back further in time with the Texas rangers and U.S. Marshalls with gangs from Mexico and range wars with the cattlemen, even more aggressive tactics where used and also very effective. Gen Patton's days as a Junior officer with Gen. Sherman with border incursions by Pancho Villa also where very effective.

Elliot Ness did not respond with overwhelming force. He got Capone on income tax evasion and with wiretaps. In the meantime, Capone and his organization were murdering and beating up other gangsters in the area. They also killed an FBI agent and had dozens of cops on bribes. Seriously. Stop while you're ahead. Elliot Ness caught Capone on a ***** charge. Nothing truly aggressive about his investigation that would more aggressive than what is done today.
 
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They went after them legally in the 20th century and not just killing anyone associated. They actually had to commit a crime. The 18th century gang situation was very different.

Freedom of association is guaranteed by our Constitution.

Why don't you learn a little about what drives youths to gangs ...

"The Crips were formed out of the poor socio-economic and repressive conditions which African-Americans living in Los Angeles were subject to in the late 1960's. As police continued to jail and kill black youths in seeking to destroy the Black Panther Party, The Crips were formed in 1969 by Raymond Washington, loosely acting as a community organization which aimed to help disenfranchised African-American communities of L.A. The Bloods quickly followed, with a mandate to protect the community from external violence. [12] As job cuts continued to rise and employers began to hire from the cheaper labour pool of the expanding Latino immigrant community, [13] unemployment rates of African-American men reached as high as 50% in several areas of South Central Los Angeles, [14] opening up large recruitment markets for the burgeoning gangs. - Gangs in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Why don't you learn a little about what drives youths to gangs ...
We already know why they are driven to gangs. So what do we have..more gangs and apparently your method or the one you advocate doesn't work because the body count directly or indirectly keeps going up. We have been trying to set them on the right path and the result are perhaps a few doing so and the majority creating mayhem unabated in the neighborhoods.
 
Elliot Ness did not respond with overwhelming force. He got Capone on income tax evasion and with wiretaps. In the meantime, Capone and his organization were murdering and beating up other gangsters in the area. They also killed an FBI agent and had dozens of cops on bribes. Seriously. Stop while you're ahead. Elliot Ness caught Capone on a ***** charge. Nothing truly aggressive about his investigation that would more aggressive than what is done today.
Who saying Eliot Ness was a machine gun toting gunfighter law enforcer, I didn't elude to that, Elliot Ness was a aggressive and proactive in his missions, as will any bio on him will state.
 
We already know why they are driven to gangs. So what do we have..more gangs and apparently your method or the one you advocate doesn't work because the body count directly or indirectly keeps going up.

Please explain what my "method" is or the one I have advocated?

Actually according to the FBI crime statistices, violent crime is on the decline. It has been on a pretty steady decline since the 60's.

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Violent crime in the United States, including murder and robbery, dropped 4.4 percent in the first half of 2009 and property crime like car thefts also dropped, the Federal Bureau of Investigation said on Monday. - U.S. crime drops in first half of 2009, FBI says | Reuters

We have been trying to set them on the right path and the result are perhaps a few doing so and the majority creating mayhem unabated in the neighborhoods.

Not according to the latest statistics...

Youth Violence Project - National Statistics

New York City Violent Crime Down 8%, Outpacing U.S., FBI Says - Bloomberg.com

Youth Crime In America DECLINING: Video Games To Blame?

Got another excuse?
 
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Who saying Eliot Ness was a machine gun toting gunfighter law enforcer, I didn't elude to that, Elliot Ness was a aggressive and proactive in his missions, as will any bio on him will state.

....What was aggressive about his approach? Elliot Ness and dozens of people targeted a single individual and ended up catching him charges which had absolutely nothing to do with what they were originally trying to do(you know, stop the sale of alcohol?). It would be the equivalent of putting 10 cops on every gang member and then instead of catching them selling drugs, they catch them on jaywalking charges. No. I think your example is flawed.
 
And in the end what did he do to get Capone? He used the LAW.

LOL, yeah whatever. He got him for tax evasion, chief.

You're awfully ****-sure for not really knowing what in the hell you're talking about.
 
LOL, yeah whatever. He got him for tax evasion, chief.

Ummm... Tax evasion is breaking the LAW. That is what he got him for LEGALLY. He did not hose down an entire neighborhood, or use overwhelming force.

You're awfully ****-sure for not really knowing what in the hell you're talking about.

You really need to understand what you read before making yourself look well, uninformed.
 
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....What was aggressive about his approach? Elliot Ness and dozens of people targeted a single individual and ended up catching him charges which had absolutely nothing to do with what they were originally trying to do(you know, stop the sale of alcohol?). It would be the equivalent of putting 10 cops on every gang member and then instead of catching them selling drugs, they catch them on jaywalking charges. No. I think your example is flawed.
Your only referring to Capone and his gangs non the less Ness was aggressive by tearing up his drug dens, breweries etc.but, Ness's job also consisted fighting gangs in Cleveland Ohio, corruption, prohibition and corruption amongst law enforcement and so on. Read his Bio
 
Your only referring to Capone and his gangs non the less Ness was aggressive by tearing up his drug dens, breweries etc.but, Ness's job also consisted fighting gangs in Cleveland Ohio, corruption, prohibition and corruption amongst law enforcement and so on. Read his Bio

nonetheless is one word my man. ;)

My grammar and spelling is not any better. Just thought you would like to know since you use it allot.
 
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