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Thread: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The resentment that many Americans have for the European attitude (related to WWII) began during the bombing of Omar Khadafi. Remember when France would let the US fly through its air space? That is just one example of what cause the rift in current times. Americans felt betrayed.
    That's just one example. They are so petrified over enemies that they screw over allies. Their Suez Canal behavior was in conflict with America's efforts for the region. Their whining about not being consulted by the UN in regards to America leading the mission in Somalia. De Gaul's statements of superiority over English speaking nations in the 50s went a long way to creating a rift between English speaking nations and them. American G.I.s getting pick pocketed and jumped in the streets of Paris in the late 40s was quite a slap in the face.

    France has always been a pain in the ass and their constant attempts to derail American efforts rather than be on the team is old hat. This thing over Iraq was merely the latest. They have spent decades trying to recapture old glory. Their weapons sales flooding into Africa and the Middle East and their nuclear weapons have always been about showing how they can be equal.

    They have always been reluctant team members and they have spent decades ensuring that they define the face of Europe. This attitude is historical where they have plenty of ocasions sold out the continent to preserve themsleves. Today they seek to tear down others so that their depravity can be justified.
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-14-10 at 07:52 PM.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    That's just one example. Their Suez Canal behavior was in conflict with America's efforts for the region. Their whining about not being consuloted by the UN in regards to America leading the mission in Somalia. De Gaull's statements of superiority over English speaking nations in the 50s. American G.I.s getting pick pocketed and jumped in the streets of Paris in the late 40s.

    France has always been a pain in the ass and their constant attempts to derail American efforts rather than be on the team is old hat. This thing over Iraq was merely the latest. They have spent decades trying to recapture old glory. Their weapons sales flooding into Africa and the Middle East and their nuclear weapons have always been about showing how they can be equal.

    They have always been reluctant team members and they have spent decades ensuring that they define the face of Europe. Now Germany shares the identity. Peas in a pod.
    I assume you are agreeing with me.
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Only after American boots crossed the ocean, once again, and forced you. Until America's involvement, European powers were quite content deliberating over it passing judgement.



    Second World War? What about the Cold War? When the Berlin Wall came down an American presence was still in Germany. Bosnia and Kosovo was in the 90s. Today is 2010. What has changed?




    Well that's very nice, but a National Guard hiding behind an advanced American machine is hardly something to parade around. Until you can completely defend yourselves, your common defense is the American/British shield and umbrella. Both of which I want back across the ocean for a few decades so that same old lessons can be learned.




    What do you mean "what?" Saddam Hussein was a dictator for the West during the Iran/Iraq War. His greatest supplier of weapons came from France. During the 90's he was allowed his throne and his station of oppression because the West wished it so. He was a "western" dictator. The Cold War has more examples. The New Imperialsim era has a plethora of these from Europe alone. The colonial period celebrated this concept of population control. Hussein was one of the last hold outs and he held out because we assured it.




    It would be eay if there weren't a World War before that one. Or a Cold War after....Bosnia after....Kosovo after.... Hell, a big part of Clinton's foriegn policy agenda in Europe was ensuring a stable Russia and partnership so that Europe no longer had to be our burden. We are merely waiting for the next trip across the ocean for Europe's sake.



    I'm pretty sure that even most of Europe would chastize you greatly for this bout of glorified ignorance. Perhaps you have America confused with a mirror.




    Oh we did learn. After two world Wars instigated by Europeans, we learned that left to your own devices the world couldn't be safe and that it would cost American lives in the end. This is why we stuck around for the Cold War and why we have tried to make you play nice with each other since the Berlin Wall came down. With America's youth, you would think that Europe would be more parental instead of childish in your resentments towards the upstarts across the Atlantic.

    But perhaps it is Europe that has finally learned the lesson. This attempt to create a "unified" military may be exactly what you have to do in order to ensure your own defense for a change so that America can focus more on our own issues. If only we had a Cold War to primarily look inward at someone else's expense. But we aren't so bad. Due to our culture, we don't have any where near the immigrant and terror issues you have even after your Cold War dedicated focus inward.



    Because it absolves you of responsibility and gives you an excuse to turn away. Did you know that the UN labeled Kosovo as "illegal?" Even the high and mighty French chose to ignore this bit of international law. Hmmm...the hypocracy of Europeans is only surpassed by the Arabs in the Middle East.




    A dictator in America? Do even think before you type or is emotion such a strong thing for you that you can't contain your absurdity? Every military needs a commander and every country needs a leader. And in 50 years, the nations of Europe will continue to have single leaders. What people "want" and what is practical are often two different things.




    The Cold War lasted until 1989 and Bosnia and Kosovo was in the 1990s. I'm pretty sure these dates mean that it was not the 1950s. But please....eduate me as to the latest scheme or dream Europeans have to re-model themsleves. In the end, you are a cycle. Your pacifist "nothing bad can happen" attitudes today existed post World War I and pre-World War II. You spent a Cold War doing nothing but benefitting under the "nothing bad can happen" attitude and the 90's griping that there is a reality outside your borders for which you have to take part in for a change. Please enlighten me of Europe's latest "new" attitude.

    Left to Europe, the world would be denied until we can label something World War III.

    Your view on Europe is completely outdated. You view Europe anno 1950. The reality is something alltogether different.

    Your view on European militaries and defense is ridiculous. They arent national guards, but full flexed militaries, far more capable than most militaries of the world.

    Your view on Saddam Hussein and the French refusal to join the illegal Iraq war, and your silly theory that France and Germany was in cahoots with Saddam smells like conspiracy theory mixed with Fox News brainwashing. As do your opinion on Europe and European defense in general smell Fox News brainwashing.
    Its clear in history that Saddam was more a tool of the US than any European state.

    Your view of America and Europe is so 1940s, because this suits your distorted image that America is good and Europe bad.


    I am not going to continue to respond to your drivel, conspiracy theories, and fox news opinions. I do wish you a hasty recovery, I can recommend a mix of media as the cure, try some non American ones, try to find a middle point in it all. Anti-brainwash yourself, currently you serve as some puppet for the American fascist agenda(unknowingly!!!), and they have you in a ballgrip.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    I like the idea.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    NATO manages because it is managed by the U.S.
    NATO Sec Gen. Anders Fogh Rasmussen
    Chair of Military Committee Giampaolo Di Paolo

    Doh!
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I'm pretty sure that even most of Europe would chastize you greatly for this bout of glorified ignorance. Perhaps you have America confused with a mirror.
    100% ACK

    Maximus couldn't show you one european party that sells his views. There isn't, it's way out of the box. Your views on the other hand, there are dozens of european sources you could use who simply collaborate your views. Especially the point you made about european leadership in the former territory of Yugoslavia. The cold truth hurts europeans in their pride, makes some of us less .. rational. It should have been the case for european cooperation. After a few sorry attempts and a lot of genocide, it resorted into begging the americans for help. After a year the americans fell for it and Europe played the old game of blaming the americans.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    That's just one example. They are so petrified over enemies that they screw over allies. Their Suez Canal behavior was in conflict with America's efforts for the region. Their whining about not being consulted by the UN in regards to America leading the mission in Somalia. De Gaul's statements of superiority over English speaking nations in the 50s went a long way to creating a rift between English speaking nations and them. American G.I.s getting pick pocketed and jumped in the streets of Paris in the late 40s was quite a slap in the face.

    France has always been a pain in the ass and their constant attempts to derail American efforts rather than be on the team is old hat. This thing over Iraq was merely the latest. They have spent decades trying to recapture old glory. Their weapons sales flooding into Africa and the Middle East and their nuclear weapons have always been about showing how they can be equal.

    They have always been reluctant team members and they have spent decades ensuring that they define the face of Europe. This attitude is historical where they have plenty of ocasions sold out the continent to preserve themsleves. Today they seek to tear down others so that their depravity can be justified.
    They can't even accept an American winning their damn bike race. I know that sounds trivial, but it's based in the same mentality and inferiority complex that pervades their every thought.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    So what do Americans thnk about this, how about Europeans, and how about others?

    This is a work in progress since the Maastricht treaty. But I mean, "under full parliament control"

    Germany has the biggest say in the parliament.
    What for? if it aint broke dont fix it. Whats the point of different countries with different priorities having the same army?

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    They can't even accept an American winning their damn bike race. I know that sounds trivial, but it's based in the same mentality and inferiority complex that pervades their every thought.
    Unless no.1 is french, the french always support the underdog in the TDF. They also didn't like Indurain much, won too often adn with too much supremacy to make the race exciting.

    You should find a better example, or remember that europeans are just as different in their convictions as are americans. I prefer the latter.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Its clear in history that Saddam was more a tool of the US than any European state.
    The top three weapon suppliers to Saddam Hussein was the Soviet Union, China, and France (in that order). No other nation on earth came close to what these three did. America was merely the face of diplomacy for the west when it came to keeping Khomeini penned in his corner. And when it came to kicking him out of Kuwait, it was American muscle that did the work. And when it came to containing him for the UN so that France and Germany could benefit from food-for-oil scandals it was America that finally had enough and took him out once and for all. It is clear that he was more of a partner to Europe.

    And today, the chief importer of weapons into Africa by far is -ding..ding..ding- hypocritical France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Your view of America and Europe is so 1940s, because this suits your distorted image that America is good and Europe bad.
    Europe's history of global colonization, imperialsim, bad border creations, two World Wars, a Cold War, and neglected genocide as late as the 90s tends to help my view.

    If you don't like your history and your region's behaviors, decade after decade, the answer isn't to deny it. Nor is it to tear another nation down for any slip or stutter to make your history "not so bad." The answer is to change. But I see the same Europe today the rest of the world's been seeing for centuries.

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