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Thread: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    I'm going to make another topic in the warfare forum to discuss this, since this top was originally about an EU Army.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I'm going to make another topic in the warfare forum to discuss this, since this top was originally about an EU Army.
    Good call!
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Hide the Jews.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckrk1iqYdfM&feature=PlayList&p=D7920FA3650 6CE68&index=5"]YouTube- WW II Video, Nazi National Anthem[/ame]
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
    I'll grant that American participation was more important than I had thought. However, as Wiseone said, you never single handedly won either of the world wars (despite all the bravado chest thumping you give yourselves), and even if the Spring Offensive had succeeded, it's doubtful that Germany would have been able to hang on to all of that territory for long.
    Well, I realize the common attitude, so many years later by generations that didn't participate or endure it, is to pat each other on the back for fear that too much credit in one place will make others feel bad, but history is history.

    America never single handedly won any global war or effort. Nobody's really ever stated this. This attitude has mostly come from those Europeans abroad who breathed a breath of fresh air for the first time in years only after an American tank went through their town. Some of this attitude rightly comes from the American population of the era who saw almost a single handed effort in the Pacific only to double the amount of American troop death in Europe. Later generations would have to constantly remind Europeans that their complaints that we came late to their party wouldn't have hasd to come at all if they handled business on their won as we did in the Pacific.

    Today's attitude is a result of resentment and social need to re-capture pride and glory. France's atitude towards NATO and constant cock blocking of American efforts in the global regions over the decades was their way of "proving" that they are independant and powerful again. Germany has had to contend with the fact that they are defined as history's producer of ultimate evil and their generations have been paying for this blow ever since.

    But no matter why the general attitude about America's involvements in Europe's affairs exist, it can only be denied that it was a key ingredient every single time by those who are so deep in their resentments that they stoop to labeling Americans as Nazis or declaring that "America's done nothing good for nobody except for WWII (- compliments of Zeebra)" Do you honestly think Afghanistan is any different? If it was Paris that Al-Queda struck, American forces would still be the most aggressive and the most prevailent ingredient to that effort. Bosnia and Kosovo proves what they expect of us.
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-14-10 at 06:21 PM.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I'm going to make another topic in the warfare forum to discuss this, since this top was originally about an EU Army.
    Sorry fellas.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Well, I realize the common attitude, so many years later by generations that didn't participate or endure it, is to pat each other on the back for fear that too much credit in one place will make others feel bad, but history is history.
    History can be interpreted, and frequently is. It's not so simple and clear cut like you make it out to be. Life doesn't work that way, as simple and pleasing to some as a simplistic view may be.
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
    History can be interpreted, and frequently is.
    Yes...and with every new generation, this interpretation becomes more altering than those who actually lived the event. In other words, after another half century, America will not have even been involved.

    In the 50s they were all about America's involvement and our station at the Berlin Wall. In the 60s it was all about America's sin in Vietnam...and our station at the Berlin Wall. In the 70s it was all about American culture....and our station at the Berlin Wall. In the 80s it was all about our kick starting armegeddon...and our station at the Berlin Wall. In the 90s it was all about dismissing America entirely. And in this decade we are Nazi germany re-incarnated. And all along we have steadily had less and less to do with World War II in Europe as they completely dismiss the Pacific as a side issue.

    Today we get to hear about how our contribution to WWII was insignificant because the Russians really won that war for them and that the Soviets defeated themselves during the Cold War. Today, our culture is seen a diseased spreading of anti-culture. Our activities are compared to Europe's worst offenses in history. Our identity is constantly attacked by those who have none. We are blamed for every economic woe, despite our involvement to keep the world out of economic stress in '98 over Asian markets. Our humanitarian efforts are constantly dismissed even though we lead the UN's missions and encompass the majority of military local aid in most efforts.

    Such resentment comes from some place.
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-14-10 at 07:04 PM.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Today we get to hear about how our contribution to WWII was insignificant because the Russians really won that war for them and that the Soviets defeated themselves during the Cold War. Today, our culture is seen a diseased spreading of anti-culture. Our activities are compared to Europe's worst offenses in history.
    Well I don't think that most people think that America's contribution to WW2 was insignificant. It's not necessarily based on resentment to point out certain historical facts that may differ from the long-standing self-congratulating view of Americans. If there is resentment, it probably stems from the dominant American views that I pointed out in the last sentence.

    Some of you Yanks really have a persecution complex that you need to deal with.
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
    Well I don't think that most people think that America's contribution to WW2 was insignificant. It's not necessarily based on resentment to point out certain historical facts that may differ from the long-standing self-congratulating view of Americans.
    Let's not kid each other. If the European generation of World War II were able to see what today's European generation spew they would call them liars. It is hardly a matter of realizing "facts." It's more like creating an easier "fact" Europeans today can live with. Germany wasn't so bad, was it? And Russia has certainly always been just misunderstood, hasn't it? I mean, that is where their revisions are heading.

    Europe is in need of another identity lesson. And make no mistake...there is resentment. Europe has conducted studies and written extensively on this fact on their own. Such can be found on the Web.


    Quote Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
    Some of you Yanks really have a persecution complex that you need to deal with.
    Perhaps. But at least find something we can be persecuted for and be less hypocritical with the finger pointing.
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-14-10 at 07:37 PM.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
    Well I don't think that most people think that America's contribution to WW2 was insignificant. It's not necessarily based on resentment to point out certain historical facts that may differ from the long-standing self-congratulating view of Americans. If there is resentment, it probably stems from the dominant American views that I pointed out in the last sentence.

    Some of you Yanks really have a persecution complex that you need to deal with.
    The resentment that many Americans have for the European attitude (related to WWII) began during the bombing of Omar Khadafi. Remember when France would let the US fly through its air space? That is just one example of what cause the rift in current times. Americans felt betrayed.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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