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Thread: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

  1. #41
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Highly impractical. There is no U.N. / NATO / or any other higher command that would hold my allegiance and loyalty in another nation if America was being attacked. You actually believe that 5,000 French troops would be expected to stay encamped under EU colors in Germany while France gets devistated?

    This is an academic exercise at best.
    Well nobody is likely to attack the EU in the near future, so yes, it is an academic exercise to envision an assault. But a European military is not academic, it's being talked about seriously in the upper echelons of Europe. It's a real possibility.

    Actually, it would not be the same at all. Canadians are Canadians and Americans are Americans. The French aren't German and the Poles aren't Itailans. Until the nations of Europe surrender their flags and guidons so that they can be one nation....they are forever separate.

    Let's not forget that the EU merely caulks over the cracks of Europe. It hardly unites them.
    The troops would have to swear loyalty to Europe, and it's command, and be willing to deal with the consequences thereof. Not all Europeans are hardcore nationalists.

    More illusions. In the end, they are separate tribes and with every chance to prove it they do.
    Yeah, except the whole thing of integrating themselves more and more.
    "When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. I say enjoy the show, don't take it seriously." - George Carlin

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
    Well nobody is likely to attack the EU in the near future, so yes, it is an academic exercise to envision an assault. But a European military is not academic, it's being talked about seriously in the upper echelons of Europe. It's a real possibility.
    We'll never see it become anything other than a ceremonial display if that.


    Quote Originally Posted by AgentM View Post

    Yeah, except the whole thing of integrating themselves more and more.
    Peace has a way of allowing people to entertain impractical things. When put to the test, their "integration" will crumble. They couldn't even come together over Bosnia and Kosovo. For Afghinstan they individually bicker over responsibility. And for Iraq they completely ran in different directions.

    Who will be the Commander? A Frenchy? A German? A Turk? A former Soviet Bloc citizen? A Brit? Will they share command thereby placing nationality and culture under like commanders making them little more than what they are now? Will individual governments give up their citizens to EU laws over their own? It has nothing to do with being a "hardcore nationalist." It's about logistics and culture.

    An EU military is unlikely and impractical. But it would be entertaining to see them try. Right now, they can't even individually move their troops internationally without American aid. Nor can they support themselves properly without American air support.
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-09-10 at 12:13 AM.

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  3. #43
    Comrade from Canuckistan! AgentM's Avatar
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    We'll never see it become anything other than a ceremonial display if that.




    Peace has a way of allowing people to entertain impractical things. When put to the test, their "integration" will crumble. They couldn't even come together over Bosnia and Kosovo. For Afghinstan they individually bicker over responsibility. And for Iraq they completely ran in different directions.

    Who will be the Commander? A Frenchy? A German? A Turk? A former Soviet Bloc citizen? A Brit? Will they share command thereby placing nationality and culture under like commanders making them little more than what they are now? Will individual governments give up their citizens to EU laws over their own? It has nothing to do with being a "hardcore nationalist." It's about logistics and culture.

    An EU military is unlikely and impractical. But it would be entertaining to see them try. Right now, they can't even individually move their troops internationally without American aid. Nor can they support themselves properly without American air support.
    Well we'll just have to wait and see what happens. I think it can happen. We'll have to leave it at that, cause this discussion is going nowhere.
    "When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. I say enjoy the show, don't take it seriously." - George Carlin

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
    Well we'll just have to wait and see what happens. I think it can happen. We'll have to leave it at that, cause this discussion is going nowhere.
    Yeah it's a pointless discussion. I don't even care what Europe does. If they can pull it off so that it finally frees America from the burden of always crossing the ocean, more power to them. I'd love to see them deal with their own dictators and genocides for a change.
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-09-10 at 12:21 AM.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    I think this is great, France's independant nuclear deterrent could then be shared by all of Europe

  6. #46
    Comrade from Canuckistan! AgentM's Avatar
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by paris View Post
    I think this is great, France's nuclear deterrent could then be shared by all of Europe
    Is is already isn't it? De facto? Same with Britain's nukes.
    "When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. I say enjoy the show, don't take it seriously." - George Carlin

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
    Is is already isn't it? De facto? Same with Britain's nukes.
    Not sure about that. And the use of nukes by the UK is very dependant of the USA's will if I recall correctly.

    Actually I don't really know. Here is a document I just found on this subject

    http://www.assembly-weu.org/en/docum...deterrence.pdf
    Last edited by paris; 02-09-10 at 12:51 AM.

  8. #48
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    So what do Americans thnk about this, how about Europeans, and how about others?

    This is a work in progress since the Maastricht treaty. But I mean, "under full parliament control"

    Germany has the biggest say in the parliament.
    If it happens then it would most likely be setup much like NATO.
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by angrybeaver View Post
    Americans are too poor now. We will ask the Chinese instead
    Learn Chinese, 2 billion people can't be wrong.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    To whom will their allegiance be?
    Western ideals?

    Ideally a European military would operate ONLY to protect the citizens fundamental rights(as laid out in the "European charter of fundamental rights").
    Last edited by Maximus Zeebra; 02-11-10 at 04:24 PM.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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