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Thread: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

  1. #111
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    What part do you like, their cultural revolution, the way they handle students, or their improvement of Tibet?
    Like a typical anti-Chinese you ignore any of the great things that has happened in China, and choose to focus on 2 negative issues that happened 20 years apart. And those issues being negative since you probably didnt really understand any of the properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    Can you name me a few of their achievements? What's so appealing?
    Bringing more than the equivilant of the full population of the US out of poverty into relative comfortable lives.

    For example.

    Also politics in China is much more controlled by the people now than it was 20 or 30 years ago. The peoples party cannot ignore the will of the people. That doesnt mean they have to make stupid decisions like lifting the information monopoly and allowing indoctrination from the outside onto their population. That would be quite dumb actually.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  2. #112
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyboy View Post
    Maximus Zeebra, are you saying that EU members weren't peaceful and prosperous before joining the EU?
    Quite........
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  3. #113
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Give up control of money and now military to some huge bureaucratic nightmare of an institution? Yeah, that's a great idea. Pretty much looking to destroy all the sovereign countries in Europe.
    Nightmare bureaucratic institution? At least its not dogmatic-static and unable to change like US federal political institutions..

    And its a great political creation, the most promising of any government in the world at this time.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  4. #114
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Like a typical anti-Chinese you ignore any of the great things that has happened in China, and choose to focus on 2 negative issues that happened 20 years apart. And those issues being negative since you probably didnt really understand any of the properly.
    I feel so exposed for being typical anti-Chinese.

    You have not answered my question but I'll answer yours.

    I do not ignore, I fail to see "any of the great things". I'm glad your answer gave me more insights, detailed as it was. I named 3 'negative isseus', which has more to do with my laziness than the lack of gross violations of human rights by the Chinese government. Mostly against their own people, as can be expected from one party systems.

    Bringing more than the equivilant of the full population of the US out of poverty into relative comfortable lives.

    For example.
    Well that changes everything. I must admit its the first time anyone told me this but I'm sure you have plenty sources to back it up.

    Also politics in China is much more controlled by the people now than it was 20 or 30 years ago. The peoples party cannot ignore the will of the people. That doesnt mean they have to make stupid decisions like lifting the information monopoly and allowing indoctrination from the outside onto their population. That would be quite dumb actually.
    Yes, it's always the totalitarian, authoritative states who prosper. Imagine all the knowledge, wisdom and creativity coming from China the next few decades, it's so exciting.

  5. #115
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    I feel so exposed for being typical anti-Chinese.

    You have not answered my question but I'll answer yours.

    I do not ignore, I fail to see "any of the great things". I'm glad your answer gave me more insights, detailed as it was. I named 3 'negative isseus', which has more to do with my laziness than the lack of gross violations of human rights by the Chinese government. Mostly against their own people, as can be expected from one party systems.
    I think those things are necessary "evils".. I see the justifications for the Tiannamen Square breakup. I also dont necessarily stand on the side of Tibet in their "issue". I do support reginalism in Europe to some degree, but China is not mature enought for that at all, which is the reason I completely support Chinese action in Tibet, unlike all the people who watched these things in Tibet sympatic partly anti Chinese(because they are instead pro-western) western media.

    I dont know what you aim at when you say cultural revolution.. There is a cultural revolution going on in China. That should be viewed as a positive thing. Even though they dont conform the western ideals, its not a bad thing, althout most westerners would try to force you to believe so.

    I for one totally support the Chinese information firewall. I understand why its there, I understand the need for it, and I completely and utterly support the Chinese leadership decision on it, despite western nagging over it(because they are unable then to Brainwash the Chinese people).
    The Chinese should be able to create their own way, and they are doing so, perhaps in 50 years we will learn from the Chinese way, and give up our silly multi party democracy political bickering disfunctional circus system and actually create a political system and hand more influence into the hands of the people, LIKE China IS doing.

    Just because it is a one party system doesnt mean its incomtible with democracy. The reason westerners believe so, is because we ourself are so out of touch with what democracy really means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    Well that changes everything. I must admit its the first time anyone told me this but I'm sure you have plenty sources to back it up.
    Do you seriously contend this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    Yes, it's always the totalitarian, authoritative states who prosper. Imagine all the knowledge, wisdom and creativity coming from China the next few decades, it's so exciting.
    What you dont understand is that China isnt authoritarian, and that the natural development inside the Chinese one party system is that this type of system actually is bringing the people far more power than the pretend democracies of the west.
    People have one party to view, and instead have to focus on the single issues at hand, instead of selecting a pre selected often incomatible menu.



    I strongly recommend this book about the issue, if you want to understand how China is developing, and why I support that type of [ame="http://www.amazon.com/What-Does-China-Think-ebook/dp/B002RI9T9Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=A12MGAGPLUJEQK&s=digital-text&qid=1267131486&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: What Does China Think? eBook: Mark Leonard: Kindle Store[/ame]
    Last edited by Maximus Zeebra; 02-25-10 at 04:58 PM.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  6. #116
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    I think those things are necessary "evils".. I see the justifications for the Tiannamen Square breakup.
    I also dont necessarily stand on the side of Tibet in their "issue". I do support reginalism in Europe to some degree, but China is not mature enought for that at all, which is the reason I completely support Chinese action in Tibet, unlike all the people who watched these things in Tibet sympatic partly anti Chinese(because they are instead pro-western) western media.
    Are you somehow suggesting that itís not Tibetans but in fact the western media who reject the Chinese colonisation of Tibet?
    In regard to Tiannamen Square, where could a government kill and maim a couple of thousand students and remain in power. Surely not in a democracy. When you say ďnecessary evils", I think ďAnimal FarmĒ.
    I dont know what you aim at when you say cultural revolution.. There is a cultural revolution going on in China. That should be viewed as a positive thing. Even though they dont conform the western ideals, its not a bad thing, althout most westerners would try to force you to believe so.
    Iím sorry , I assumed you knew about Maoís cultural revolution. Which brings me to the following. Which western ideals are you talking about?
    I for one totally support the Chinese information firewall. I understand why its there, I understand the need for it, and I completely and utterly support the Chinese leadership decision on it, despite western nagging over it(because they are unable then to Brainwash the Chinese people).
    Chinaís engaged in mind control and you support it. 30 years from now youíll wake up in front of a teleprompter with a chip in your arse. BTW, the West isnít nagging, theyíre sucking up to China becuase they want acces to their markets and exploit their proletariat.
    The Chinese should be able to create their own way, and they are doing so, perhaps in 50 years we will learn from the Chinese way, and give up our silly multi party democracy political bickering disfunctional circus system and actually create a political system and hand more influence into the hands of the people, LIKE China IS doing.
    Just because it is a one party system doesnt mean its incomtible with democracy. The reason westerners believe so, is because we ourself are so out of touch with what democracy really means.
    We used to know what the alternative means. I donít mind criticism on democracy but as long as you donít provide an alternative you leave it to my imagination.
    Do you seriously contend this?
    Hell yes!
    What you dont understand is that China isnt authoritarian, and that the natural development inside the Chinese one party system is that this type of system actually is bringing the people far more power than the pretend democracies of the west.
    People have one party to view, and instead have to focus on the single issues at hand, instead of selecting a pre selected often incomatible menu.

    I strongly recommend this book about the issue, if you want to understand how China is developing, and why I support that type of Amazon.com: What Does China Think? eBook: Mark Leonard: Kindle Store
    Sure Iíll buy it, maybe then Iíll appreciate the concept of the deliberative dictatorship more.

  7. #117
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Why do you hate the idea? Do you not think a European+national DEFENSE, could defend Europe and the nations within it BETTER than the current national defense structure?
    No it wouldn't.
    Who would it be answerable to? Who would control it? How can you ensure it is 'controlled' fairly?
    I refuse to accept German-only leadership or French only. Will small countries have as much control of said defense as UK?

    It would be a European DEFENSE.. Not an offense. Your thoughts of "using" the army is so knit to your following bad American "normality".
    So another useless project? Noted.

    In my view it would plea allegiance to western values and the European charter of fundamental rights, before their natural allegiance to the nations they are born in.
    British soldiers pledge their allegiance to Her Majesty, the Queen. Not some bloody charter. It has been for hundreds of years and it will remain.
    Europe is really pushing it. Lets just abolish all national pride and history and restart it all over again :/

    And people wonder why the British fear closer integration if it is this kind of stuff they dream up.
    Last edited by Laila; 02-26-10 at 05:12 PM.


  8. #118
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Of course I cannot. Can you?

    Thats the problem exactly with multi party/bi party systems. The reason I support a one party system where the people vote on policies rather than the party.
    Unfortunately, a one party system in Germany proved your sentiment foolish. Of course, there's always the possibilty that the Nazi Party was merely misunderstood.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Perhaps we are just trying to pave out an alternative direction to the insane global policies of the current United States, whom just like Germany(FOR EXAMPLE), turned from being an open society into a closed one.
    Hmmmm...weren't you celebrating the greatness of Barrack Obama as reaching out to Europe just a few months ago while people like me were ruining it? Yet here you are talking about America's "current trend" of looking to be a more closed society. Wasn't it your kind that bestowed the Nobel Peace Prize upon our magnificent Washingtoin king? Perhaps your fears of a "closed" American society has you worried about having to work harder to eran a seat at America's table in the future?

    The way I see it, the farther we can keep you kind away and force you to defend and fight your own battles the stronger a Western world is. As it is, you are weak because we are strong and this makes us weaker than we have to be.

    By the way, I wonder how you feel about your earlier preaching about how America's economy was finished. Seems we are bouncing just fine as predicted (which is the American way) while you all are being as European as always. Turn your back on us. Embrace Russia and Soviet Union. I mean you owe everything to them over the last 100 years don't you? Thoughts?
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-27-10 at 12:44 AM.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Quite........
    The most prosperous and peaceful time in Europe's history was during the Cold War when America was parenting and defending western Europe's nursing needs. So much is owed...so much is refused...

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