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Thread: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

  1. #101
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    So what do Americans thnk about this, how about Europeans, and how about others?

    Germany has the biggest say in the parliament.
    What do I think about it?
    I absolutely hate the idea of a European Army. It will not happen for a long time.

    Besides, what would be the point of such an army? Not like the Europeans have the balls to use force wrapped up in a hippy pacifist mindset especially if it would be led by the Germans.

    Edit: Who/what would this army pledge their allegiance to? The British army/soldiers has and always will be her Majesty's Armed Forces and allegiance goes to the crown not to Europe.
    Last edited by Laila; 02-22-10 at 04:07 PM.


  2. #102
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    To the extend that no matter what party I'd vote for none would deny the simple historic facts you denied, would approve statements like:

    Your view on Saddam Hussein and the French refusal to join the illegal Iraq war, and your silly theory that France and Germany was in cahoots with Saddam smells like conspiracy theory mixed with Fox News brainwashing. As do your opinion on Europe and European defense in general smell Fox News brainwashing.
    Its clear in history that Saddam was more a tool of the US than any European state.
    None of the two extremist parties in the US that is. They tend to always blame the French and always wave the American flag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    Oh really, how interesting Which state best represents the one party sytem in your view?
    China is a pretty good example.

    The European Union commission has no parties, they just propose the policies they see as the best way forward, and the people of the commission varies all the time. Thats a pretty good example, but its not a government, just a good type of political indstitution.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    What do I think about it?
    I absolutely hate the idea of a European Army.
    Why do you hate the idea? Do you not think a European+national DEFENSE, could defend Europe and the nations within it BETTER than the current national defense structure?
    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    It will not happen for a long time.
    It IS HAPPENING..

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Besides, what would be the point of such an army? Not like the Europeans have the balls to use force wrapped up in a hippy pacifist mindset especially if it would be led by the Germans.
    It would be a European DEFENSE.. Not an offense. Your thoughts of "using" the army is so knit to your following bad American "normality".

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Edit: Who/what would this army pledge their allegiance to? The British army/soldiers has and always will be her Majesty's Armed Forces and allegiance goes to the crown not to Europe.
    In my view it would plea allegiance to western values and the European charter of fundamental rights, before their natural allegiance to the nations they are born in.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    A single army for all Europe . . . and it is a German idea.

    Hitler must be smiling.
    The height of wisdom is to say, "I do not know." -Socrates

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    IMO, the net benefits of such an approach will depend on how it is set up. For example, if the European countries model a common defense force along the lines of how NATO is set up, the design could allow for greater effectiveness without a serious sacrifice of sovereignty. The design of such a force and setting for of authority will probably be the most challenging aspect.
    Like European governance it cannot be compared with federal America, the UN or any other type of past governance. Its something altogether new.

    I think also a European defense will be something never before seen. I believe in many different ways it can turn out. But most of all I believe in a national restructuring of defense resources and the building of a small professional force on top of that. I believe the biggest change will be all the new strategies and command that will be added to make it a true European defense.

    I have no belief that a European defense will be anything other than a DEFENSE strictly.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Given the large number of shared interests between the European countries and U.S., I doubt that a European Army would be seen as threatening to the U.S. Arguably, a common European Army could be seen as being in the interests of the U.S., too, as it makes sense for friendly states to have a robust capability for defending themselves.
    Exactly.
    And NATO have to be a two way alliance also. In case the US need it we also need to be able to contribute significant defense of the US as well.

    A NATO of the United States, the European Defense Organisation and Turkey, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Finally, in this thread there seems to be an implied, but not too subtle, suggestion that Europe's countries are somehow incapable of managing their affairs and cannot be trusted to shape their own destiny. I strongly disagree.
    I dont know where these ideas come from, but when uttered on this forum, they usually seem quite extreme, and from people with general extremist standpoints.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Europe deserves much credit for having evolved into a prosperous and democratic zone. To be sure, U.S. security guarantees during the Cold War and post-WW II assistance e.g., the Marshall Plan, made significant positive contributions, but the Europeans did a lot on their own. The efforts of the Europeans were indispensable to the outcome.
    Also the European Union is doing a lot. Its expanded the zone of peaceful and prosperous countries from a zone of 6 to include most of Europe, and it affects countries far beyond Europe as well in their wish to also become the same way(some in a far stretched hope of becoming members, others in their own versions of the EU).
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  6. #106
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    None of the two extremist parties in the US that is. They tend to always blame the French and always wave the American flag.
    That could be true but in this particular case the French had invested in Iraq and never denied their economical interest. So, France not supporting a full scale invasion could also have a lot more trivial reason.

    China is a pretty good example.
    What part do you like, their cultural revolution, the way they handle students, or their improvement of Tibet?

    The European Union commission has no parties, they just propose the policies they see as the best way forward, and the people of the commission varies all the time. Thats a pretty good example, but its not a government, just a good type of political indstitution.
    Can you name me a few of their achievements? What's so appealing?

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Also the European Union is doing a lot. Its expanded the zone of peaceful and prosperous countries from a zone of 6 to include most of Europe . . .
    Maximus Zeebra, are you saying that EU members weren't peaceful and prosperous before joining the EU?
    The height of wisdom is to say, "I do not know." -Socrates

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    It's a terrible idea. The growing centralization of power in world governments is becoming a worrying trend. Oh wait! I forgot...modern humans are different - they're incorruptible and incapable of committing atrocities, so there's no reason to worry about that stuff anymore...

    I would view the formation of an EU army as a threat to world security, given their general instability and love of centralized authority. If the EU becomes a giant super-state it will most likely devolve into an authoritarian regime.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 02-23-10 at 03:36 PM.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    What do I think about it?
    I absolutely hate the idea of a European Army. It will not happen for a long time.

    Besides, what would be the point of such an army? Not like the Europeans have the balls to use force wrapped up in a hippy pacifist mindset especially if it would be led by the Germans.

    Edit: Who/what would this army pledge their allegiance to? The British army/soldiers has and always will be her Majesty's Armed Forces and allegiance goes to the crown not to Europe.
    Laila, your part of the world is becoming increasingly scary for anyone who enjoys their personal freedom and national sovereignty. A European super-state would be the final nail in the coffin for the British people. If you want to come to the US before it's too late feel free to send me a PM...

  10. #110
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    So what do Americans thnk about this, how about Europeans, and how about others?

    This is a work in progress since the Maastricht treaty. But I mean, "under full parliament control"

    Germany has the biggest say in the parliament.
    Give up control of money and now military to some huge bureaucratic nightmare of an institution? Yeah, that's a great idea. Pretty much looking to destroy all the sovereign countries in Europe.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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