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Thread: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

  1. #91
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    NATO Sec Gen. Anders Fogh Rasmussen
    Chair of Military Committee Giampaolo Di Paolo

    Doh!
    The "Chair" has nothing to do with it. NATO has been a feast for decades at American expense. While American forces engaged all over the world during the Cold War, NATO did nothing. When genocide was raging in Bosnia, it was President Clinton that pulled NATO in. When Kosovo was in need of bombing it was President Clinton that pulled NATO in. In Afghanistan, it is American forces that place NATO forces and issue mission statements.

    ....or did you think Europe ran NATO all this time? Get a clue. "Doh!"
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-21-10 at 01:53 PM.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I'd love to see this. Of course we would just be setting ourselves up to having to cross the Atlantic Ocean when too much American blood has to be spilt to balance it out again.
    What American blood are you talking about? Our embassies and diplomats? I only advocated bringing our military personal back home, Im not advocating isolationism.

    We tried to stay our of their affairs dutring WWII, but in the end had to go make a difference.
    Because the Japanese attacked us. Before Pearl Harbor there wasnt much sentiment among people to get involved in World War 2. People hated the Nazi's and Fascist Italy this is true but werent gun ho for war.

    We tried to stay out of Bosnia and Kosovo, but in the end had to go do what they would not on their lone. America has learned its lessons. Whether they like it or not, they will be parented until they grow up.
    That parenting almost got us into a nuclear war with Putin during the whole Georgia episode. I thank God that Georgia wasnt a NATO member.
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  3. #93
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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    What for? if it aint broke dont fix it. Whats the point of different countries with different priorities having the same army?
    It is broke. But it will always be broke because Europe isn't and will never be a single country. It's the same old crap. It's always about competing with America. Their individualisms were too obvious so they invented the EU. Their economies couldn't compete with the Dollar or the Yen so they invented the Euro. Instead of just being true partners on a team of prosperity and power with the English speaking nations they continually seek to disrupt policies and boast "equality." It's a side effect of World War II.

    But they weren't even willing to consider themselves our equals. It wasn't long after World War II, they were boasting their superiority over English nations. One event after another they sought to proclaim their independance from the Western pack and gradually chipping away at what makes them feel inferior.

    For a region that needed English speaking people across the Channel and Atlantic to save them from themselves, they sure didn't waste any time proclaiming their superiority to us after the fact. Today, it's the Russians that were their ultimate saviors....anybody but English speaking people. Historical isn't it?

    This "European Army" is just the next step to pretend that they are one and can compete. Now, it's on the military level. What I see is the leading nations of Europe, that have spent decades defying English speaking agendas around the globe, stagnating the rest of Europe even more than they do now and doing even more harm to the Western path.
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-21-10 at 02:07 PM.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    What American blood are you talking about? Our embassies and diplomats? I only advocated bringing our military personal back home, Im not advocating isolationism.
    Neither am I. But I do advocate that Europeans be made to bear the brunt of the efforts in their own damn region for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Because the Japanese attacked us. Before Pearl Harbor there wasnt much sentiment among people to get involved in World War 2. People hated the Nazi's and Fascist Italy this is true but werent gun ho for war.
    Because ultimately it was their fight to win or lose. Not ours. Yet we went because Europe couldn't handle it on their own. And for this, we are criticized for taking our time as if we didn't have our own war to fight.


    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    That parenting almost got us into a nuclear war with Putin during the whole Georgia episode. I thank God that Georgia wasnt a NATO member.
    No it didn't. We were know where near a nuclear war over Georgia. I had Marines deploy to Georgia to assist in their training during that whole debacle. But what if it did? Everything we have done since World War II has "almost" escelated into the next step according to the pundits (Cuban Missile Crisis, Star Wars spending, Georgia?). It's a nuclear world. All the more reason to remain powerful over others, to include some of our allies who have only sought power of their own over us.

    Our parenting of Europe since WWII has given them the most peaceful and prosperous period in their entire history. This is fact. And after the Cold War, they were more than willing to watch genocide thrive and possibly spread before they did anything. They claim to learn, but they do not. The biggest part of Clinton's foriegn policy throughout the 90s was to ensure that Europe would no longer threaten our security and peace. This meant that they would have to step up and do so that America doesn't have to.
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-21-10 at 02:20 PM.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    Maximus couldn't show you one european party that sells his views.
    Of course I cannot. Can you?

    Thats the problem exactly with multi party/bi party systems. The reason I support a one party system where the people vote on policies rather than the party.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    What for? if it aint broke dont fix it. Whats the point of different countries with different priorities having the same army?
    What is the point of having a DEFENSE? I think we could do that better together.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    But they weren't even willing to consider themselves our equals. It wasn't long after World War II, they were boasting their superiority over English nations.
    Did you ever consider that could be because it is true?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    For a region that needed English speaking people across the Channel and Atlantic to save them from themselves, they sure didn't waste any time proclaiming their superiority to us after the fact.
    Nor do Americans mention when the French saved them in the civil wars.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Today, it's the Russians that were their ultimate saviors....anybody but English speaking people. Historical isn't it?
    Perhaps we just want to give credit where credit is due. We certainly do not need to give any credit to Americans, because they credit themselves all the time. We need to credit someone who is not as self crediting and forget everyone else. So yes, why not mention the Soviets efforts and the UK efforts? All in all with the Americans bragging about themselves all the time, and Europe bragging about the UK and Soviets as well, Americans are still bragged most about.
    Thats whats wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    This "European Army" is just the next step to pretend that they are one and can compete. Now, it's on the military level. What I see is the leading nations of Europe, that have spent decades defying English speaking agendas around the globe, stagnating the rest of Europe even more than they do now and doing even more harm to the Western path.
    Perhaps we are just trying to pave out an alternative direction to the insane global policies of the current United States, whom just like Germany(FOR EXAMPLE), turned from being an open society into a closed one.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Of course I cannot. Can you?
    To the extend that no matter what party I'd vote for none would deny the simple historic facts you denied, would approve statements like:

    Your view on Saddam Hussein and the French refusal to join the illegal Iraq war, and your silly theory that France and Germany was in cahoots with Saddam smells like conspiracy theory mixed with Fox News brainwashing. As do your opinion on Europe and European defense in general smell Fox News brainwashing.
    Its clear in history that Saddam was more a tool of the US than any European state.


    Thats the problem exactly with multi party/bi party systems. The reason I support a one party system where the people vote on policies rather than the party.
    Oh really, how interesting Which state best represents the one party sytem in your view?

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    An army is only useful....if you use it.
    A strong military force can lead to deterrence. Aggression deterred is optimal to the use of force after aggression has taken place.

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    Re: Germany speaks out in favour of European army

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    So what do Americans thnk about this, how about Europeans, and how about others?
    IMO, the net benefits of such an approach will depend on how it is set up. For example, if the European countries model a common defense force along the lines of how NATO is set up, the design could allow for greater effectiveness without a serious sacrifice of sovereignty. The design of such a force and setting for of authority will probably be the most challenging aspect.

    Given the large number of shared interests between the European countries and U.S., I doubt that a European Army would be seen as threatening to the U.S. Arguably, a common European Army could be seen as being in the interests of the U.S., too, as it makes sense for friendly states to have a robust capability for defending themselves.

    Finally, in this thread there seems to be an implied, but not too subtle, suggestion that Europe's countries are somehow incapable of managing their affairs and cannot be trusted to shape their own destiny. I strongly disagree.

    Europe deserves much credit for having evolved into a prosperous and democratic zone. To be sure, U.S. security guarantees during the Cold War and post-WW II assistance e.g., the Marshall Plan, made significant positive contributions, but the Europeans did a lot on their own. The efforts of the Europeans were indispensable to the outcome.

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