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Thread: Senator's Projects Stall Obama Appointees

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    Re: Senator's Projects Stall Obama Appointees

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Hey, I have an idea, let's take a single case of something a single guy did and decide that it shows something about an entire broad movement.
    Dav, they have all been talking this crap my entire life, and none of them have delivered on it. Red states on average get more in spending back from the federal government than blue states do. These guys talk small government but they can't even manage to get their own states to live within their means and not depend upon the taxpayers of wealthier east coast states. Their model, their ideas, simply don't work.
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    Re: Senator's Projects Stall Obama Appointees

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Dav, they have all been talking this crap my entire life, and none of them have delivered on it. Red states on average get more in spending back from the federal government than blue states do. These guys talk small government but they can't even manage to get their own states to live within their means and not depend upon the taxpayers of wealthier east coast states. Their model, their ideas, simply don't work.
    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I don't understand why people still try to draw conclusions by looking at what states are most or least likely to do this or that and then looking at how those states vote. That's not how logic or statistics work.

    There are way too many factors affecting each state in how much federal money it receives to say conclusively that it is related to whether it's a "red state" or "blue state".

    Of course, to say that they have one "model" is incorrect anyways. There are many conservative models, since conservatism (as well as liberalism) is hardly a united or consistent ideology.

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    Re: Senator's Projects Stall Obama Appointees

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Hey, I have an idea, let's take a single case of something a single guy did and decide that it shows something about an entire broad movement.
    It's not just Shelby. It requires 41 votes for a filibuster to succeed. There are 41 Republican Senators. (more accurately, it requires 60 votes to override a filibuster via Cloture)

    The Republicans have to back him for this to work.

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    Re: Senator's Projects Stall Obama Appointees

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    There are way too many factors affecting each state in how much federal money it receives to say conclusively that it is related to whether it's a "red state" or "blue state".

    Of course, to say that they have one "model" is incorrect anyways. There are many conservative models, since conservatism (as well as liberalism) is hardly a united or consistent ideology.
    The fact is, these movement conservatives have been talking the limited government talk for 30 years now, and have yet to put it into action anywhere. The only difference in them and their liberal counterparts is what they want to spend your money on.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Senator's Projects Stall Obama Appointees

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    The fact is, these movement conservatives have been talking the limited government talk for 30 years now, and have yet to put it into action anywhere. The only difference in them and their liberal counterparts is what they want to spend your money on.
    Anywhere? That's just not accurate; there are plenty of states with very limited governance. And on the national level, we had Reagan and Gingrich, though I already know that you would debate those so oh well.

    Even if you were right, though, it doesn't really mean anything except that they haven't had the political power yet to do so.

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    Re: Senator's Projects Stall Obama Appointees

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Anywhere? That's just not accurate; there are plenty of states with very limited governance
    Please provide an example of a state under conservative Republican control, that has reduced the fiscal size of its government, YET, does not receive more from the federal government in spending than it pays in as taxes.

    I don't know if there is one or not, however, I bet there isn't.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 02-10-10 at 11:35 PM.
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    Re: Senator's Projects Stall Obama Appointees

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Please provide an example of a state under conservative Republican control, that has reduced the fiscal size of its government, YET, does not receive more from the federal government in spending than it pays in as taxes.

    I don't know if there is one or not, however, I bet there isn't.
    I would, but you're failing to realize that it does not matter. How much federal money a state receives is a matter of the conditions of certain people in the state and of demographics. Whether they are a "red state" or "blue state" is pretty much irrelevant to both of those things.

    But I would suspect that the Dekotas would be an example of what you are looking for.

    EDIT: [ame="http://www.scribd.com/doc/8229012/Tax-Donor-or-Contrib-States"]Tax Donor or Contrib States[/ame]


    The states that payed more in federal taxes (according to that) than federal money they received between 1981 and 2005 are: CA, CO, CT, DE, FL, GA, IL, IN, MA, MI, MN, NV, NH, NJ, NY, NC, OH, OR, TX, WA, WI

    A mixed bunch.
    Last edited by Dav; 02-11-10 at 12:05 AM.

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    Re: Senator's Projects Stall Obama Appointees

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    for a president and a party to enact their agenda, absolutely, they should be able to attract 60 votes
    There has rarely been a time when a president or party's agenda has attracted 60% of the votes. Almost no competitive elections are decided by this margin--fewer still at the national level. Why should the Senate be different?

    The reason this has never been a problem before is that the Senate has operated by a gentlemanly, informal set of cooperative rules. This has gone on for hundreds of years, in fact. Even during during the years leading to the Civil War we did not have this level of grandstanding and obstruction. Of course, back then, there was a bar in the back of the room.....

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    Re: Senator's Projects Stall Obama Appointees

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    There has rarely been a time when a president or party's agenda has attracted 60% of the votes. Almost no competitive elections are decided by this margin--fewer still at the national level. Why should the Senate be different?

    The reason this has never been a problem before is that the Senate has operated by a gentlemanly, informal set of cooperative rules. This has gone on for hundreds of years, in fact. Even during during the years leading to the Civil War we did not have this level of grandstanding and obstruction. Of course, back then, there was a bar in the back of the room.....
    nonsense

    in the clinton years, every bit of legislation he passed he did because the minority was AFRAID to oppose him

    his particulars were perceived as popular

    reagan's agenda, he totally intimidated his opposition

    obama completely misplayed his mandate

    his stimulus was a PIG

    he let PELOSI write it, for cryin out loud

    ie, what would/could anyone EXPECT?

    if he'd done HEALTH CARE before CAP AND TRADE (in the house), for instance...

    100 other things, big and small

    oh, no, times are no more partisan today than they've ever been

    politics in the united states is what it's been---outright CIVIL WAR

    both sides would assassinate the other if they could get away with it, if resort to violence didn't turn out to be so disadvantageous, harmful, POLITICALLY

    obama's a loser, one of the greatest in our nation's long, glorious history

    sorry

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    Re: Senator's Projects Stall Obama Appointees

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    nonsense

    in the clinton years, every bit of legislation he passed he did because the minority was AFRAID to oppose him

    his particulars were perceived as popular

    reagan's agenda, he totally intimidated his opposition

    obama completely misplayed his mandate

    his stimulus was a PIG

    he let PELOSI write it, for cryin out loud

    ie, what would/could anyone EXPECT?

    if he'd done HEALTH CARE before CAP AND TRADE (in the house), for instance...

    100 other things, big and small

    oh, no, times are no more partisan today than they've ever been

    politics in the united states is what it's been---outright CIVIL WAR

    both sides would assassinate the other if they could get away with it, if resort to violence didn't turn out to be so disadvantageous, harmful, POLITICALLY

    obama's a loser, one of the greatest in our nation's long, glorious history

    sorry
    This is a string of unsubstantiated and overstated claims.

    Sorry.

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