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Thread: Soaring cost of healthcare sets a record

  1. #11
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    Re: Soaring cost of healthcare sets a record

    The main issue is HMOs. Due to tax incentives for businesses, most people get insurance from their employer. With this third payer plan, the consummer has no incentive to cut costs. And as demand goes up, so does price. In a more individualized system people have a much greater incentive to look out for the best price. Things like allowing people to buy insurance across state lines and tort reform. Bring back the free market in health care

    Also Disneydude, while I disagree with most of their ideas on it, the GOP has put forward several bills and suggestions that the Democrats didn't even consider. Most, including even the GOP, want reform, just not what the Democrats are pedaling
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    Re: Soaring cost of healthcare sets a record

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Healthcare spending grew to a record 17.3% of the U.S. economy last year





    Regardless of how we feel about the current health care reform debate, of whether said reform would bring down costs or not, there is one thing on which we all should agree: The current system is not sustainable over the long haul.
    I do not think that anyone feels the current system is sustainable. If you believe that then you would oppose the healthcare legislation on the table. This bill will not do enough to slow down the rate of spending, if it slows it down at all.

    The danger in passing this bill is that people will then think we have done something to fix the system and forget about the problem for the next 10 years or so. Who wants to go through this again if they don't have to.

    Congress needs to get past the lobbyists and pass meaningful health care reform!

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    Re: Soaring cost of healthcare sets a record

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I do not think that anyone feels the current system is sustainable. If you believe that then you would oppose the healthcare legislation on the table. This bill will not do enough to slow down the rate of spending, if it slows it down at all.

    The danger in passing this bill is that people will then think we have done something to fix the system and forget about the problem for the next 10 years or so. Who wants to go through this again if they don't have to.

    Congress needs to get past the lobbyists and pass meaningful health care reform!
    Having people without insurance raises the cost on everyone. Health care possesses what is known as "perfect inelasticity" meaning rising prices will not reduce the amount of people who will seek it.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Soaring cost of healthcare sets a record

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Having people without insurance raises the cost on everyone. Health care possesses what is known as "perfect inelasticity" meaning rising prices will not reduce the amount of people who will seek it.
    Not sure I understand the point you are raising. Although I think everyine should have insurance, I am pretty sure if you have more people using something without reducing the cost per unit served then costs overall will rise.

    I also do not agree with your perfect inelasticity theory. Most people do not have to consider cost when choosing health care options as insurance pays the fees and most people with insurance get it through their employers. Thus very little of the cost of a procedure is actuallu paid by the user. This was not addressed at all in the health care bill in congress.

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    Re: Soaring cost of healthcare sets a record

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Not sure I understand the point you are raising. Although I think everyine should have insurance, I am pretty sure if you have more people using something without reducing the cost per unit served then costs overall will rise.

    I also do not agree with your perfect inelasticity theory. Most people do not have to consider cost when choosing health care options as insurance pays the fees and most people with insurance get it through their employers. Thus very little of the cost of a procedure is actuallu paid by the user. This was not addressed at all in the health care bill in congress.
    Health care is perfectly inelastic. The cost rises every year in line with steady demand (now increasing). That is the very definition of price inelasticity in regards to demand.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Soaring cost of healthcare sets a record

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Healthcare spending grew to a record 17.3% of the U.S. economy last year

    Regardless of how we feel about the current health care reform debate, of whether said reform would bring down costs or not, there is one thing on which we all should agree: The current system is not sustainable over the long haul.
    Soaring Health Care cost are not an indication of a problem as much as it is the result of an aging population that has led the "GOOD LIFE" and are now paying the cost for a life of poor choices, in fast food consumption, smoking, and living the good life.

    Baby Boomers like me are now getting the bill for our life of Reilly and it will continue.

    Don't fall into the trap of believing it's all the result of a failed system. My parents and grand parents all had fewer options to fall back on when it comes to medical care and they died.

    Today we get treatments that were not available a few years ago and that adds to the bottom line costs because there are so many of us who are now living longer, and that costs more.

    Are you willing to argue that I am wrong? Or are you so stupid that you can't see the facts that when more people there are receiving treatment the overall costs are going to go up?
    Last edited by Councilman; 02-05-10 at 12:59 PM.

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    Re: Soaring cost of healthcare sets a record

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Health care is perfectly inelastic. The cost rises every year in line with steady demand (now increasing). That is the very definition of price inelasticity in regards to demand.
    then what do you say to the growth of generic drugs. When given the choice, people use the lower cost product. This would seem to show pretty good price elasticity.

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    Re: Soaring cost of healthcare sets a record

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    then what do you say to the growth of generic drugs. When given the choice, people use the lower cost product. This would seem to show pretty good price elasticity.


    If the cost of health care goes up, the quantity demanded does not go down in equal proportion. This is referred to as inelastic demand. If the cost of health care goes up, and the demand does not decrease at all, it is referred to as perfectly inelastic.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Soaring cost of healthcare sets a record

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post


    If the cost of health care goes up, the quantity demanded does not go down in equal proportion. This is referred to as inelastic demand. If the cost of health care goes up, and the demand does not decrease at all, it is referred to as perfectly inelastic.
    Perhaps what makes this confusing for some is that the person using this service is not the one paying for it. Most health care is provided by either the government or insurance companies. When you charge the user, i.e. if they have to pay a higher deductable then you see the usage go down.

    An example of this is that the co-pay for generics is lower than if you buy the
    original. Thus people switch to the lower cost drug. So there is price elasticity.

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    Re: Soaring cost of healthcare sets a record

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Soaring Health Care cost are not an indication of a problem as much as it is the result of an aging population that has led the "GOOD LIFE" and are now paying the cost for a life of poor choices, in fast food consumption, smoking, and living the good life.

    Baby Boomers like me are now getting the bill for our life of Reilly and it will continue.

    Don't fall into the trap of believing it's all the result of a failed system. My parents and grand parents all had fewer options to fall back on when it comes to medical care and they died.

    Today we get treatments that were not available a few years ago and that adds to the bottom line costs because there are so many of us who are now living longer, and that costs more.

    Are you willing to argue that I am wrong? Or are you so stupid that you can't see the facts that when more people there are receiving treatment the overall costs are going to go up?
    I can see that the current system was adequate back when there was little that medical science could do anyway, and when we had a younger population. Now that people are aging, living longer, and when it is possible to treat diseases that were once untreatable, of course, costs are going to rise.

    But, that isn't the whole story. The same services cost a lot more than they used to, even when inflation is added into the equation.

    When my son was born in 1969, for example, we paid $250 up front for a normal childbirth and an overnight stay in the hospital. Insurance didn't cover normal childbirth, nor did it have to as the cost was affordable. When my grandson was born in 2000, the cost for the same thing had risen to over $10,000. Nothing else has gotten that much more expensive. Today, I have no idea how much a childbirth costs, but I'm willing to bet that it is a lot more than $10,000.

    When my daughter was born in 1971, it was far from a normal childbirth. My wife was in the hospital for three weeks, the baby was in the hospital for quite some time, there was a cesearean section involved, and the cost was about $2,000 for everything, including hospital, doctors, and meds. That's 1/5 the cost of a normal childbirth ten years ago.

    Anyone have an idea what such a stay in the hospital would cost today?

    What worked thirty, forty, or fifty years ago isn't good enough today. Anyone want to buy a 1950's car? How about a TV?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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