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NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

I'm more curious about why he didn't investigate other provinces, and went right to the U.S. Even though he carries a health card for NL, that card could still be used in other provinces. Plus he is a Premier... I'm sure that has to get him some access.

My feeling is that he just wanted the best of the best, who happens to reside in the U.S. It's the political forces which are trying to make this a statement of values about either country's health care.

I don't know if you're allowed to go to other provinces for non-emergency surgery, that may have to do with it...
 
Hey, I think America has the best health care system too.

That's not what I said. My comment was about the doctor of the procedure, not the system. Don't put words in my mouth.

The Prof said:
no comment

Then why post at all?
 
I can't believe that nobody in this thread gets it.

The Premier of Newfoundland is a robot.

He's returning home for a routine maintenance procedure.

If you think that's absurd, ask yourself how many of the people spanking on Canada's health care this thread:
  • Could put their finger on Newfoundland on an unmarked globe if someone put a gun to their head
  • Could name the Premier of NL even five minutes after reading this thread

Yeah, that's right, he's a robot!
 
I can't believe that nobody in this thread gets it.

The Premier of Newfoundland is a robot.

He's returning home for a routine maintenance procedure.

If you think that's absurd, ask yourself how many of the people spanking on Canada's health care this thread:
  • Could put their finger on Newfoundland on an unmarked globe if someone put a gun to their head
  • Could name the Premier of NL even five minutes after reading this thread

Yeah, that's right, he's a robot!


Escaped from the conspiracy forum eh? :2wave:
 
I can't believe that nobody in this thread gets it.

The Premier of Newfoundland is a robot.

He's returning home for a routine maintenance procedure.

If you think that's absurd, ask yourself how many of the people spanking on Canada's health care this thread:
  • Could put their finger on Newfoundland on an unmarked globe if someone put a gun to their head
  • Could name the Premier of NL even five minutes after reading this thread

Yeah, that's right, he's a robot!

Yup, soo many of the American conservatives who love to comment on Canadian health care don't actually know much of anything about my country. It's kinda sad!
 
Yup, soo many of the American conservatives who love to comment on Canadian health care don't actually know much of anything about my country. It's kinda sad!

Oh, don't feel so bad. Americans (in general) like do that with everybody else's business. :mrgreen:
 
So he's rich enough to go for the best treatment available.

Where is the story?
 
The US healthcare system may not be the best, but we have the highest quality in the world. Cancer patients live and survive longer in the US than in any other nation on earth. We are also a leading nation when it comes to research and the quality of care is superior. I do support some form of universal healthcare (definitely not what the Dems or most European nations have). But still, when compared to quality America is #1.
 
The US healthcare system may not be the best, but we have the highest quality in the world. Cancer patients live and survive longer in the US than in any other nation on earth.
The devil is in the details.
That figure is based on the successful treatment of cancer. However not all cases in the US recieve treatment. In countries with UHC, all cases recieve treatment regardless. As a result those with the worst prognosis may throw the figures.
Secondly, that is only one area where there is a marked difference.


We are also a leading nation when it comes to research and the quality of care is superior. I do support some form of universal healthcare (definitely not what the Dems or most European nations have). But still, when compared to quality America is #1.
The problem isn't the quality, it's the access.
 
The devil is in the details.
That figure is based on the successful treatment of cancer. However not all cases in the US recieve treatment. In countries with UHC, all cases recieve treatment regardless. As a result those with the worst prognosis may throw the figures.
Secondly, that is only one area where there is a marked difference.



The problem isn't the quality, it's the access.

I don't know of many people that don't receive treatment. It's illegal to not treat someone because of their income. My grandfather has multiple miloma. He is a retired man and has had experimental treatments that saved his life. They predicted he had 6 months to live, and that has turned into about 8 years (if I remember right), he is still in complete remission too. Healthcare is very expensive and that definitely needs to be fixed, but usually for the poor there is programs available that will pay for their treatments.

And I know it is just one area, but it reflects on the other areas. We are one of the leading medical research nations on earth, and I'm sure in other areas we have high survival rates compared to other nations. What I am arguing is that the US has the greatest quality of care. I will have to agree that it is way too expensive (especially medicine). In nations with universal healthcare there is rationing and the waits for treatments are so long that people die waiting for their surgeries and treatments. With things like cancer you can't wait, it must be treated quickly if you are to survive.
 
Yup, soo many of the American conservatives who love to comment on Canadian health care don't actually know much of anything about my country. It's kinda sad!

Heck, they don't know much about their own country either, so I wouldn't be too insulted! :2razz:
 
I don't know of many people that don't receive treatment.

When my wife's cancer was first discovered, I had no health care. Our doctor told us we needed $10,000 up front. We then begged and pleaded with all of our relatives and about three months later were able to have the operation done 500 miles away from where we lived, thanks to family who also couldn't really afford it either -- and in the meantime, the cancerous tumor kept growing.

My personal experience with American health care seems to be in direct opposition to your cheery rose-glasses view. And there are many other horror stories like that all over.
 
:violin:violin:violin

Why do you think the premier is choosing to seek care in America?

If we had universal care, then where would the poor man go? India?

Because it is an individual choice and people choose the DUMMEST reasons for the hospital they want. I work in health care and I have heard some of the following

That is the only hospital my doctor goes to
They have nice food (yeah well you will be having gut surgery and Nil by mouth almost the entire time but enjoy!)
Better class of people
But I like the decor there (yeah but I have seen the resus trolley and you would stand a better chance out at Thargarmindah!
I can get a private room (but that means you will not have the oversight you get in shared rooms)

Best health care is actually LAST on most people's list
 
Because it is an individual choice and people choose the DUMMEST reasons for the hospital they want. I work in health care and I have heard some of the following

That is the only hospital my doctor goes to
They have nice food (yeah well you will be having gut surgery and Nil by mouth almost the entire time but enjoy!)
Better class of people
But I like the decor there (yeah but I have seen the resus trolley and you would stand a better chance out at Thargarmindah!
I can get a private room (but that means you will not have the oversight you get in shared rooms)

Best health care is actually LAST on most people's list
More likely, in their minds they equate most of those things to "best health care".
 
More likely, in their minds they equate most of those things to "best health care".

Unfortunately they do - but best health care is about what you need not what you want.

You might WANT to stay in bed for a week after surgery but what you NEED is to get up and get moving. The private system is likely to provide wants because the customers keep coming back then. The public system is more likely to provide needs because they DON'T want people coming back - or staying longer;)
 
Unfortunately they do - but best health care is about what you need not what you want.

You might WANT to stay in bed for a week after surgery but what you NEED is to get up and get moving. The private system is likely to provide wants because the customers keep coming back then. The public system is more likely to provide needs because they DON'T want people coming back - or staying longer;)
One could say the opposite as well: The private system is more likely to provide customers with their needed length of time in care, and the public system is more likely to kick them out before they should be. The difference, IMO, is that a private system could more easily be held accountable for using the incorrect procedure (perhaps keeping a patient in bed when they should be moving, or the opposite), while a public system, as a arm of the government, has all of the government's power behind it, and thus is less likely to be held accountable for mistakes. Sure, you could build a punishment system into a public system, but bureaucracies protect their own if at all possible.
 
One could say the opposite as well: The private system is more likely to provide customers with their needed length of time in care, and the public system is more likely to kick them out before they should be. The difference, IMO, is that a private system could more easily be held accountable for using the incorrect procedure (perhaps keeping a patient in bed when they should be moving, or the opposite), while a public system, as a arm of the government, has all of the government's power behind it, and thus is less likely to be held accountable for mistakes. Sure, you could build a punishment system into a public system, but bureaucracies protect their own if at all possible.

You could make the exact opposite argument, that the government is more accountable than private corporations.
 
I can't believe that nobody in this thread gets it.

The Premier of Newfoundland is a robot.

He's returning home for a routine maintenance procedure.

If you think that's absurd, ask yourself how many of the people spanking on Canada's health care this thread:
  • Could put their finger on Newfoundland on an unmarked globe if someone put a gun to their head
  • Could name the Premier of NL even five minutes after reading this thread

Yeah, that's right, he's a robot!

My whole family is from Newfoundland. I was born in Toronto and grew up there. It's not my problem you're too damn ignorant to know where NL is. There are lots of people from NL dispersed all over Canada. Get a clue.
 
wait times have become such a (political) problem in maple leaf land the various govts of ottawa and the provinces have spent years and billions addressing them, yet wait times persist

here, the canadian wait times alliance makes its famous recommendations:

Canadian Wait Times Alliance Urges Speed in Reducing Health Care Wait Times in Canada

here's a promise to establish wait times guarantees by 2010

Wait Times Guarantees for Health Care in Canada - Provincial Health Wait Times Guarantees

here's manitoba's registry of wait times by procedure, most of the provinces post similar lists

About.com: http://www.gov.mb.ca/health/waitlist/index.html

here's an index of the various registries by province

Wait Times for Health Care in Canada - Provincial Data on Wait Times for Health Care in Canada

the "brain drain" is another issue above the parallel, medical professionals fleeing the country to practice their services elsewhere---here's the cma's report on the subject, admittedly published a few years ago

How bad is the brain drain? -- Gray 161 (8): 1028 -- Canadian Medical Association Journal

here's an update, 2007

Managing physician shortages: We are not doing enough -- Busing 176 (8): 1057 -- Canadian Medical Association Journal

no comment
 
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You could make the exact opposite argument, that the government is more accountable than private corporations.
True.
There are multiple ways of being held to account, after all...

A government, if democratically elected, can be held to account by not being re-elected, or being impeached, or whatnot.

A private corporation/entity can be held accountable through loss of business, fines if their industry is regulated in some way and they violated those regulations, and lawsuits if they violated the law in some way.

In both cases, negative or positive publicity can exacerbate or alleviate part of the consequences.

Of the two, however, I think there are more consequences hanging over private agencies than over public ones.
Not to mention, I am opposed to almost any growth of government control/power.
 
wait times have become such a (political) problem in maple leaf land the various govts of ottawa and the provinces have spent years and billions addressing them, yet wait times persist

here, the canadian wait times alliance makes its famous recommendations:

Canadian Wait Times Alliance Urges Speed in Reducing Health Care Wait Times in Canada

here's a promise to establish wait times guarantees by 2010

Wait Times Guarantees for Health Care in Canada - Provincial Health Wait Times Guarantees

here's manitoba's registry of wait times by procedure, most of the provinces post similar lists

About.com: http://www.gov.mb.ca/health/waitlist/index.html

here's an index of the various registries by province

Wait Times for Health Care in Canada - Provincial Data on Wait Times for Health Care in Canada

the "brain drain" is another issue above the parallel, medical professionals fleeing the country to practice their services elsewhere---here's the cma's report on the subject, admittedly published a few years ago

How bad is the brain drain? -- Gray 161 (8): 1028 -- Canadian Medical Association Journal

here's an update, 2007

Managing physician shortages: We are not doing enough -- Busing 176 (8): 1057 -- Canadian Medical Association Journal

no comment

Wait times in the U.S. are just as bad if not worse, and you end up paying for it yourself. I'd rather wait to be seen for a few hours and get free care, than wait for a few hours and pay $2,000.

No one said Canada's system is perfect, but it's free to the public and the quality is just fine.
 
Wait times in the U.S. are just as bad if not worse, and you end up paying for it yourself. I'd rather wait to be seen for a few hours and get free care, than wait for a few hours and pay $2,000.

No one said Canada's system is perfect, but it's free to the public and the quality is just fine.
It isn't free, unless no one pays taxes in Canada...
 
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