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Thread: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

  1. #51
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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    My whole family is from Newfoundland. I was born in Toronto and grew up there. It's not my problem you're too damn ignorant to know where NL is. There are lots of people from NL dispersed all over Canada. Get a clue.
    1. I never said I don't know where Newfoundland is.

    2. I obviously wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the people who self-righteously bag on Canada's health care system while hardly knowing the first thing about Canada, much less its health care system.

    I'd say "get a clue," but it's obvious you didn't actually read my post, so I won't bother.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    True.
    There are multiple ways of being held to account, after all...

    A government, if democratically elected, can be held to account by not being re-elected, or being impeached, or whatnot.

    A private corporation/entity can be held accountable through loss of business, fines if their industry is regulated in some way and they violated those regulations, and lawsuits if they violated the law in some way.

    In both cases, negative or positive publicity can exacerbate or alleviate part of the consequences.

    Of the two, however, I think there are more consequences hanging over private agencies than over public ones.
    Not to mention, I am opposed to almost any growth of government control/power.
    The flaw in your thinking is that supply/demand dynamics work the same with health care. If someone needs emergency care, they won't care if it's government run or run by corporations, they will want to survive. People can't turn away from corporate-run health care because they still need it, so the market doesn't end up determining anything.

    The main difference between the two is who foots the bill at the end. I'd much rather UHC distribute the cost to all tax payers than let a corporation gouge me when I am the most vulnerable. I care about my fellow countrymen, so my tax dollars going toward their care doesn't bother me.

    The last thing sick people need is to be stressed by the prospect of having to sell their house in order to pay for life saving treatment. Canada's system is better. You can nit pick at the little details all you want, but you still get the care you need in this country, and it doesn't ruin your life to get it.

  3. #53
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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    It isn't free, unless no one pays taxes in Canada...
    I'm so damned ignorant that what I think what Orion means is that requiring medical attention doesn't require a personal loan or a second mortgage to pay expenses that you wouldn't otherwise experience if you didn't require medical attention.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    It isn't free, unless no one pays taxes in Canada...
    Technically that's true, but compared to what I'd be paying if I had no UHC, it basically is free to me.

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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    1. I never said I don't know where Newfoundland is.

    2. I obviously wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the people who self-righteously bag on Canada's health care system while hardly knowing the first thing about Canada, much less its health care system.

    I'd say "get a clue," but it's obvious you didn't actually read my post, so I won't bother.
    I'm sorry.

    .....

  6. #56
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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Technically that's true, but compared to what I'd be paying if I had no UHC, it basically is free to me.
    True, but who said I wasn't being technical?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    The flaw in your thinking is that supply/demand dynamics work the same with health care. If someone needs emergency care, they won't care if it's government run or run by corporations, they will want to survive. People can't turn away from corporate-run health care because they still need it, so the market doesn't end up determining anything.

    The main difference between the two is who foots the bill at the end. I'd much rather UHC distribute the cost to all tax payers than let a corporation gouge me when I am the most vulnerable. I care about my fellow countrymen, so my tax dollars going toward their care doesn't bother me.

    The last thing sick people need is to be stressed by the prospect of having to sell their house in order to pay for life saving treatment. Canada's system is better. You can nit pick at the little details all you want, but you still get the care you need in this country, and it doesn't ruin your life to get it.
    Interestingly enough, I recently was introduced (in this thread) to another idea, which might work better than our current system or the UHC idea.

    It seems to me that it could be used like a mini-UHC, in a way.

    Thoughts?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Wait times in the U.S. are just as bad if not worse
    no comment

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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Interestingly enough, I recently was introduced (in this thread) to another idea, which might work better than our current system or the UHC idea.

    It seems to me that it could be used like a mini-UHC, in a way.

    Thoughts?
    It could be a good intermediate step on the way to community health care in a place that doesn't have it, but I would not want Canada backtracking to something like that.

    I think the foundational difference between Canada and the U.S. when it comes to health care is cultural. I support Canada's UHC and its taxing of citizens to provide for it, but in the U.S. the staunch right wing and libertarians are against that kind of government control. There are fiscal reasons to be against it which I am more sympathetic to, but the moral reasons don't make much sense to me. I'm Canadian though, so my values are different.

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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    It could be a good intermediate step on the way to community health care in a place that doesn't have it, but I would not want Canada backtracking to something like that.

    I think the foundational difference between Canada and the U.S. when it comes to health care is cultural. I support Canada's UHC and its taxing of citizens to provide for it, but in the U.S. the staunch right wing and libertarians are against that kind of government control. There are fiscal reasons to be against it which I am more sympathetic to, but the moral reasons don't make much sense to me. I'm Canadian though, so my values are different.
    As I am one of those against government control (my libertarian tendencies are showing), I especially like the small-scale, local/state setup...and the lack of another massive federal bureaucracy.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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