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Thread: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

  1. #41
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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by bowerbird View Post
    Because it is an individual choice and people choose the DUMMEST reasons for the hospital they want. I work in health care and I have heard some of the following

    That is the only hospital my doctor goes to
    They have nice food (yeah well you will be having gut surgery and Nil by mouth almost the entire time but enjoy!)
    Better class of people
    But I like the decor there (yeah but I have seen the resus trolley and you would stand a better chance out at Thargarmindah!
    I can get a private room (but that means you will not have the oversight you get in shared rooms)

    Best health care is actually LAST on most people's list
    More likely, in their minds they equate most of those things to "best health care".
    Education.

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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    More likely, in their minds they equate most of those things to "best health care".
    Unfortunately they do - but best health care is about what you need not what you want.

    You might WANT to stay in bed for a week after surgery but what you NEED is to get up and get moving. The private system is likely to provide wants because the customers keep coming back then. The public system is more likely to provide needs because they DON'T want people coming back - or staying longer
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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    My personal experience with American health care seems to be in direct opposition to your cheery rose-glasses view. And there are many other horror stories like that all over.
    You aren't the only one:

    17-Year-Old Cancer Survivor Dies After Transplant Is Finally Approved By CIGNA - cbs2.com
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by bowerbird View Post
    Unfortunately they do - but best health care is about what you need not what you want.

    You might WANT to stay in bed for a week after surgery but what you NEED is to get up and get moving. The private system is likely to provide wants because the customers keep coming back then. The public system is more likely to provide needs because they DON'T want people coming back - or staying longer
    One could say the opposite as well: The private system is more likely to provide customers with their needed length of time in care, and the public system is more likely to kick them out before they should be. The difference, IMO, is that a private system could more easily be held accountable for using the incorrect procedure (perhaps keeping a patient in bed when they should be moving, or the opposite), while a public system, as a arm of the government, has all of the government's power behind it, and thus is less likely to be held accountable for mistakes. Sure, you could build a punishment system into a public system, but bureaucracies protect their own if at all possible.
    Education.

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  5. #45
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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    One could say the opposite as well: The private system is more likely to provide customers with their needed length of time in care, and the public system is more likely to kick them out before they should be. The difference, IMO, is that a private system could more easily be held accountable for using the incorrect procedure (perhaps keeping a patient in bed when they should be moving, or the opposite), while a public system, as a arm of the government, has all of the government's power behind it, and thus is less likely to be held accountable for mistakes. Sure, you could build a punishment system into a public system, but bureaucracies protect their own if at all possible.
    You could make the exact opposite argument, that the government is more accountable than private corporations.
    "When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. I say enjoy the show, don't take it seriously." - George Carlin

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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I can't believe that nobody in this thread gets it.

    The Premier of Newfoundland is a robot.

    He's returning home for a routine maintenance procedure.

    If you think that's absurd, ask yourself how many of the people spanking on Canada's health care this thread:
    • Could put their finger on Newfoundland on an unmarked globe if someone put a gun to their head
    • Could name the Premier of NL even five minutes after reading this thread


    Yeah, that's right, he's a robot!
    My whole family is from Newfoundland. I was born in Toronto and grew up there. It's not my problem you're too damn ignorant to know where NL is. There are lots of people from NL dispersed all over Canada. Get a clue.

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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    wait times have become such a (political) problem in maple leaf land the various govts of ottawa and the provinces have spent years and billions addressing them, yet wait times persist

    here, the canadian wait times alliance makes its famous recommendations:

    Canadian Wait Times Alliance Urges Speed in Reducing Health Care Wait Times in Canada

    here's a promise to establish wait times guarantees by 2010

    Wait Times Guarantees for Health Care in Canada - Provincial Health Wait Times Guarantees

    here's manitoba's registry of wait times by procedure, most of the provinces post similar lists

    About.com: http://www.gov.mb.ca/health/waitlist/index.html

    here's an index of the various registries by province

    Wait Times for Health Care in Canada - Provincial Data on Wait Times for Health Care in Canada

    the "brain drain" is another issue above the parallel, medical professionals fleeing the country to practice their services elsewhere---here's the cma's report on the subject, admittedly published a few years ago

    How bad is the brain drain? -- Gray 161 (8): 1028 -- Canadian Medical Association Journal

    here's an update, 2007

    Managing physician shortages: We are not doing enough -- Busing 176 (8): 1057 -- Canadian Medical Association Journal

    no comment
    Last edited by The Prof; 02-07-10 at 10:01 PM.

  8. #48
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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
    You could make the exact opposite argument, that the government is more accountable than private corporations.
    True.
    There are multiple ways of being held to account, after all...

    A government, if democratically elected, can be held to account by not being re-elected, or being impeached, or whatnot.

    A private corporation/entity can be held accountable through loss of business, fines if their industry is regulated in some way and they violated those regulations, and lawsuits if they violated the law in some way.

    In both cases, negative or positive publicity can exacerbate or alleviate part of the consequences.

    Of the two, however, I think there are more consequences hanging over private agencies than over public ones.
    Not to mention, I am opposed to almost any growth of government control/power.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    wait times have become such a (political) problem in maple leaf land the various govts of ottawa and the provinces have spent years and billions addressing them, yet wait times persist

    here, the canadian wait times alliance makes its famous recommendations:

    Canadian Wait Times Alliance Urges Speed in Reducing Health Care Wait Times in Canada

    here's a promise to establish wait times guarantees by 2010

    Wait Times Guarantees for Health Care in Canada - Provincial Health Wait Times Guarantees

    here's manitoba's registry of wait times by procedure, most of the provinces post similar lists

    About.com: http://www.gov.mb.ca/health/waitlist/index.html

    here's an index of the various registries by province

    Wait Times for Health Care in Canada - Provincial Data on Wait Times for Health Care in Canada

    the "brain drain" is another issue above the parallel, medical professionals fleeing the country to practice their services elsewhere---here's the cma's report on the subject, admittedly published a few years ago

    How bad is the brain drain? -- Gray 161 (8): 1028 -- Canadian Medical Association Journal

    here's an update, 2007

    Managing physician shortages: We are not doing enough -- Busing 176 (8): 1057 -- Canadian Medical Association Journal

    no comment
    Wait times in the U.S. are just as bad if not worse, and you end up paying for it yourself. I'd rather wait to be seen for a few hours and get free care, than wait for a few hours and pay $2,000.

    No one said Canada's system is perfect, but it's free to the public and the quality is just fine.

  10. #50
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    Re: NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Wait times in the U.S. are just as bad if not worse, and you end up paying for it yourself. I'd rather wait to be seen for a few hours and get free care, than wait for a few hours and pay $2,000.

    No one said Canada's system is perfect, but it's free to the public and the quality is just fine.
    It isn't free, unless no one pays taxes in Canada...
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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