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Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

ADK_Forever said:
How would you know? Like I said, those Generals have been down there with the troops. If those top Generals see a need for change they have very good reasons for it. The cave men below them will just have to follow their new orders and man up... or be disciplined or then kicked out themselves. We don't need any kind of phobes in the military or anywhere.
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Maybe because I am in the Army and know how things in the Army work. I know the kind of bs we have to put up with when even a 1 star comes around.
I was in language school when the SOCOM commander came to visit. They wouldn't let any of us out of the our classrooms for any reason and they had Majors standing at all the entrances to make sure noone came in. Now keep in mind we were all NCOs and Captins about to graduate the Q course. And they did all this to make sure none of us would say something that they didn't want the Admiral to hear. So you tell me how much interaction a general has with the average private or Sgt. If you don't interact with the troops than how do you know what they think.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Bush did leave an unparalleled pile of tidying up to be urgently dealt with. The collapse of the world economic system and stuff. :roll:
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Now Bush is responsible for the whole world economic system?
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braindrain said:
Maybe because I am in the Army and know how things in the Army work. I know the kind of bs we have to put up with when even a 1 star comes around.
I was in language school when the SOCOM commander came to visit. They wouldn't let any of us out of the our classrooms for any reason and they had Majors standing at all the entrances to make sure noone came in. Now keep in mind we were all NCOs and Captins about to graduate the Q course. And they did all this to make sure none of us would say something that they didn't want the Admiral to hear. So you tell me how much interaction a general has with the average private or Sgt. If you don't interact with the troops than how do you know what they think.
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Your story reminded me of one time when then Vice President Spiro Agnew was flying into our base. Our commander had inspections of our barracks before the arrival just in case Agnew wanted to inspect our barracks.
Even as a 19 year old I had enough common sense with me to know that during the height of the Viet Nam Conflict that Agnew probably had more things on his mind than how my room looked.
The military is just one step to the side of normalcy.
 
Crosscheck said:
Your story reminded me of one time when then Vice President Spiro Agnew was flying into our base. Our commander had inspections of our barracks before the arrival just in case Agnew wanted to inspect our barracks.
Even as a 19 year old I had enough common sense with me to know that during the height of the Viet Nam Conflict that Agnew probably had more things on his mind than how my room looked.
The military is just one step to the side of normalcy.
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Lol. Tell me about it. A few years back Bush came to Ft. Bragg while I was there. I was very glad I was just there for training and not stationed there. The craziness that went on most civilians would never belive.
 
braindrain said:
Lol. Tell me about it. A few years back Bush came to Ft. Bragg while I was there. I was very glad I was just there for training and not stationed there. The craziness that went on most civilians would never belive.
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General [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Mattis"]General Mattis[/ame] was touring a training exercise that my unit was involved in and he stopped by my squad. He wanted to give some enlisted Marines a chance to ask him a question. I asked him about the Iraqi police and he noticed I wasn't wearing any rank.

"Are you a private?"

*I look down at my blouse where my rank should be*

"Oh! No, sir, I'm a lance corporal. I don't wear my rank when I train because my flak pushes it into my collar bones."

*He looks somewhat puzzled, then grins slightly*

"Huh. Okay, well to answer your question..."



This was my squad leader...

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Ethereal said:
General General Mattis was touring a training exercise that my unit was involved in and he stopped by my squad. He wanted to give some enlisted Marines a chance to ask him a question. I asked him about the Iraqi police and he noticed I wasn't wearing any rank.

"Are you a private?"

*I look down at my blouse where my rank should be*

"Oh! No, sir, I'm a lance corporal. I don't wear my rank when I train because my flak pushes it into my collar bones."

*He looks somewhat puzzled, then grins slightly*

"Huh. Okay, well to answer your question..."
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I was under the impression that Mattis was pretty well liked by Marines?
 
braindrain said:
Maybe because I am in the Army and know how things in the Army work. I know the kind of bs we have to put up with when even a 1 star comes around.
I was in language school when the SOCOM commander came to visit. They wouldn't let any of us out of the our classrooms for any reason and they had Majors standing at all the entrances to make sure noone came in. Now keep in mind we were all NCOs and Captins about to graduate the Q course. And they did all this to make sure none of us would say something that they didn't want the Admiral to hear. So you tell me how much interaction a general has with the average private or Sgt. If you don't interact with the troops than how do you know what they think.
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Anyone who has ever been in the military knows this is what goes on. They don't refer to it as being "in" and "out" for no reason. These guys are leaders. Leaders in the real sense of the word. They obviously observed enough and decided it's time to bring this aspect of the military in line with civilian life. I give them huge credit for taking this step. This is what a true leader does.

The military will deal with it and move on. Some of you act like they're all a bunch of pansies who can't handle some upheaval in their lives. These Generals and Admirals obviously think our service men and women can handle the change. And so do I.
 
ADK_Forever said:
You think he was BORN a General? :roll:
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You didn't answer my question, which is a pretty good indication that you have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe if I ask you again...

How do you know the Generals have been "down there with the troops"? Do you think all Generals start out as privates or something? How does Admiral Mullen (a Navy officer) know how enlisted infantry Marines will react to this policy change?

If you want to save us both some time you can just admit already that you have no idea how the military actually works and that you were just talking out of your bum earlier...
 
Ethereal said:
You didn't answer my question, which is a pretty good indication that you have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe if I ask you again...

How do you know the Generals have been "down there with the troops"? Do you think all Generals start out as privates or something? How does Admiral Mullen (a Navy officer) know how enlisted infantry Marines will react to this policy change?

If you want to save us both some time you can just admit already that you have no idea how the military actually works and that you were just talking out of your bum earlier...
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What, you can't think by yourself? You can't read between the lines? Maybe that's how limited you think our military personnel are.

I'll modify my answer for you.

You think he began his military career as a General or Admiral?
 
ADK_Forever said:
Anyone who has ever been in the military knows this is what goes on. They don't refer to it as being "in" and "out" for no reason. These guys are leaders. Leaders in the real sense of the word. They obviously observed enough and decided it's time to bring this aspect of the military in line with civilian life. I give them huge credit for taking this step. This is what a true leader does.

The military will deal with it and move on. Some of you act like they're all a bunch of pansies who can't handle some upheaval in their lives. These Generals and Admirals obviously think our service men and women can handle the change. And so do I.
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We know they can handle it and no one has claimed otherwise. We're just saying the policy change has the very real potential to increase friction and volatility in certain units, which could conceivably detract from their operational efficiency. We want to err on the side of caution, or at least take a long hard look at the policy before we decide to change it. You're so damn obsessed with just ramming this through that you haven't even thought about the consequences.

Obama will not be reelected come 2012. He's allowed the far-left loons to dictate his policy decisions and rhetoric on too many key issues (DADT, KSM-trial, Israel & Iran, health care) and now he's going to pay for it. I just hope we can limit the damage he does before he gets booted out of the White House...
 
ADK_Forever said:
What, you can't think by yourself? You can't read between the lines? Maybe that's how limited you think our military personnel are.

I'll modify my answer for you.

You think he began his military career as a General or Admiral?
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Hey moron, I was in the military - were you?

Fact is, not every General was once an enlisted. A lot of them graduate from college and go straight to Officer Candidate School, so when they come to the military they have no experience as an enlisted. The gulf between officers and enlisted is pretty wide in the military.

Admiral Mullen has never served as an enlisted in a Marine infantry unit or an Army infantry unit or a SF unit, so how would he know the feelings of those units in regards to this potential policy change?

I'm not sure why I keep asking you these questions, since you'll just ignore them anyway and keep spouting nonsense, but I just want to give you a chance to admit the obvious, that is, you have no clue how the military actually works.
 
Ethereal said:
We want to err on the side of caution, or at least take a long hard look at the policy before we decide to change it.
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No. You don't want it changed. Period. They've been observing this for 17 years. You want to delay it long enough till you think you'll have votes to block it. Obama should push this thru now (as well as his other agendas!) while they can.
 
Ethereal said:
We're just saying the policy change has the very real potential to increase friction and volatility in certain units, which could conceivably detract from their operational efficiency.
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And when it happens, you round up the trouble makers (ie; those anti-gay bigots), give 'em all DD's and kick their sorry asses out of the service. Problem solved.
 
ADK_Forever said:
Moron? Is that what you have to revert to when your argument is shown to be lacking?



Who said they were? :confused:
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It's obvious that your understanding of the military comes from Hollywood movies, because nothing you have said so far would indicate that you have any idea what you're talking about. Your utter inability to answer any of my questions should be proof of that.
 
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CrusaderRabbit08 said:
And when it happens, you round up the trouble makers (ie; those anti-gay bigots), give 'em all DD's and kick their sorry asses out of the service. Problem solved.
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More ill-conceived sound bites, and still no critical thinking.

I've already explained several times why this wouldn't be feasible. I'm not going to repeat myself just because reality doesn't conform to your ideals.
 
Ethereal said:
Hey moron, I was in the military - were you?

Fact is, not every General was once an enlisted. A lot of them graduate from college and go straight to Officer Candidate School, so when they come to the military they have no experience as an enlisted. The gulf between officers and enlisted is pretty wide in the military.

Admiral Mullen has never served as an enlisted in a Marine infantry unit or an Army infantry unit or a SF unit, so how would he know the feelings of those units in regards to this potential policy change?

I'm not sure why I keep asking you these questions, since you'll just ignore them anyway and keep spouting nonsense, but I just want to give you a chance to admit the obvious, that is, you have no clue how the military actually works.
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Thank you.........:applaud
 
Ethereal said:
More ill-conceived sound bites, and still no critical thinking.

I've already explained several times why this wouldn't be feasible. I'm not going to repeat myself just because reality doesn't conform to your ideals.
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Of course it's feasible. One day DADT is in effect, the next day gays are allowed to serve openly. Those who have a problem with it can either obey the regs or leave. The choice is theirs.
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
Of course it's feasible. One day DADT is in effect, the next day gays are allowed to serve openly. Those who have a problem with it can either obey the regs or leave. The choice is theirs.
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Thank God its a long time before we make that decision..Maybe we will have another president who realizes what a stupid idea that is..........One thing for sure your a long way from having the 60 votes needed in the senate to change the law............
 
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