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Thread: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I just noticed, you DID serve, which means you're knowingly spreading lies.

    You know the difference between officers and enlisted, and you know that officers don't always have the best understanding of lower level enlisted.

    You know these things and you still misrepresent things. You are a truly shameful individual.
    Very good. Did I give you too many clues?

    To assume that what you take as facts are actually facts would be a reach. You may have some bias towards officers that I do not. My observations have been that officers, especially Generals, know a good deal more than we give them credit for. I never had that "us versus them" problem with officers. However, many goof offs I knew, who were always getting in trouble, shared your opinions.
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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    You do realise that the average age of an infantry squad is I belive 19 or 20 years old right. And most of them are beer drinking, women chasing men who like to fight and raise hell. That is the type of people that are attracted to the infantry. If there is a section of the population that would most likely have a problem with gays it is that one. I never said we need world peace nor did I say we needed to be out of Iraq or Astan. What I said was we need a major draw down and than we can go and repeal DADT the very next day. I think it will be a overall good move for the army. Just one that needs to be done correctly and at the right time.
    President Franklin Roosevelt eulogized a fallen American Soldier by saying, “He stands in the unbroken line of patriots who have dared to die [that] freedom might live, and grow, and increase its blessings. Freedom lives, and through it he lives--in a way that humbles the undertakings of most men."

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    What I said was we need a major draw down and than we can go and repeal DADT the very next day. I think it will be a overall good move for the army. Just one that needs to be done correctly and at the right time.
    My point is that DADT is taking soldiers off the field right now. Repealing DADT will leave them to do their job. The only sense that waiting makes is that it is a typical Repub tactic to drag an issue so far out it gets forgotten. That's how we wound up with it in the first place.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Very good. Did I give you too many clues?

    To assume that what you take as facts are actually facts would be a reach. You may have some bias towards officers that I do not. My observations have been that officers, especially Generals, know a good deal more than we give them credit for. I never had that "us versus them" problem with officers. However, many goof offs I knew, who were always getting in trouble, shared your opinions.
    I dont have a problem with officers, my ODA's Cpt. and I are really good friends and another of my and my wifes good family friends is a major. At the same time when officers get up to the rank of full bird and higher they have a lot of other problems to deal with other than what is on the mind of a squad leader. Have you ever been in a unit that has had a visit by a general. How did that go. DId you just sit there share talk about what you were thinking about. Somehow I think not. It is not a us vs them thing it is just that high ranking officers and lower enlisted dont mix to say otherwise is an outright lie. Call me a goof off if you want but somehow I doubt any one who knows me or what I do would say the same thing.
    President Franklin Roosevelt eulogized a fallen American Soldier by saying, “He stands in the unbroken line of patriots who have dared to die [that] freedom might live, and grow, and increase its blessings. Freedom lives, and through it he lives--in a way that humbles the undertakings of most men."

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    My point is that DADT is taking soldiers off the field right now. Repealing DADT will leave them to do their job. The only sense that waiting makes is that it is a typical Repub tactic to drag an issue so far out it gets forgotten. That's how we wound up with it in the first place.
    All but one of the soldiers that I have seen that were kicked out for DADT were being kicked out because they wanted out and used it as a way out. Granted it hasnt been very many. The one other guy was a dude worked iin the hospital that pretty much every one knew was gay but the people that worked with him just looked the other way. He was finaly kicked out because he came way way out of the closet if you catch my drift. Which kind of make me think he wanted out to.
    President Franklin Roosevelt eulogized a fallen American Soldier by saying, “He stands in the unbroken line of patriots who have dared to die [that] freedom might live, and grow, and increase its blessings. Freedom lives, and through it he lives--in a way that humbles the undertakings of most men."

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    I dont have a problem with officers, my ODA's Cpt. and I are really good friends and another of my and my wifes good family friends is a major. At the same time when officers get up to the rank of full bird and higher they have a lot of other problems to deal with other than what is on the mind of a squad leader. Have you ever been in a unit that has had a visit by a general. How did that go. DId you just sit there share talk about what you were thinking about. Somehow I think not. It is not a us vs them thing it is just that high ranking officers and lower enlisted dont mix to say otherwise is an outright lie. Call me a goof off if you want but somehow I doubt any one who knows me or what I do would say the same thing.
    A lie? Why, because I've experienced something you haven't?

    I'll end this by saying this... I guess my experience has been different than yours. We played softball with officers, including birds and stars. We had some very down to earth chats. Many other experiences too.

    And like I said earlier, they weren't always wearing stars on their shoulders.

    When DADT is rightfully repealed I have all the confidence in the world that our soldiers will be able to handle it.

    G'nite.

    PS- I didn't call you, or anybody, a goof off.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    All but one of the soldiers that I have seen that were kicked out for DADT were being kicked out because they wanted out and used it as a way out.
    Then you haven't looked at many. Why don't you do some digging? Look for articles on who was or is being kicked out. The vast majority did/do not want out. And the vast majority did not "tell".
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Then you haven't looked at many. Why don't you do some digging? Look for articles on who was or is being kicked out. The vast majority did/do not want out. And the vast majority did not "tell".
    I didn't look at any these are just the ones I have seen from my past unit. I don't doubt that some have been kicked out that wanted to stay in. I also belive that some of those that say they didn't want out actually did.
    President Franklin Roosevelt eulogized a fallen American Soldier by saying, “He stands in the unbroken line of patriots who have dared to die [that] freedom might live, and grow, and increase its blessings. Freedom lives, and through it he lives--in a way that humbles the undertakings of most men."

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Anyone who has ever been in the military knows this is what goes on. They don't refer to it as being "in" and "out" for no reason. These guys are leaders. Leaders in the real sense of the word. They obviously observed enough and decided it's time to bring this aspect of the military in line with civilian life. I give them huge credit for taking this step. This is what a true leader does.

    The military will deal with it and move on. Some of you act like they're all a bunch of pansies who can't handle some upheaval in their lives. These Generals and Admirals obviously think our service men and women can handle the change. And so do I.
    The Generals can not change it.It is a law the congress must change.

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You have absolutely no experience with the military, so how are you able to make this claim?
    When the hell did you serve?

    As long as you are going to use your service in the military as the entire basis of your argument, you might as well inform of us when it was. If it was only 10 years ago, then you would have been serving in entirely different military when it comes to this issue. The attitudes are simply not the same.

    I've already heard other people who were in the infantry in the Marines who served longer than you say that this is a non issue. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'm pretty convinced that no matter how much experience you have, that you can't speak for the whole damn military, nor even the whole damn infantry. You speak for yourself, and perhaps some of the people you served with, but you don't get to speak for everyone currently serving in this military. That is the limit of personal experience, and as long as you use your service as the political tool to provide leverage in this debate, you undermine everything you did for this country. You ask that people be objective, but it is becoming clear that you are pushing your own agenda because your aren't speaking about this objectively, you are making completely unsubstantiated assumptions and then attacking others for not having the same personal experiences that you have had.

    Be a good soldier. Say that you want the military to do what will improve military effectiveness and that you expect all soldiers to follow through on whatever policy they decide will best benefit the military in that aim, whether it is the complete repeal of this policy, some compromise, or the complete exclusion of gays. But don't push your assumptions down people's throats simply because you have your political agenda to push.

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