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Thread: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    That's why I think it should be up to the commander's discretion. What works for one unit may not work for another.
    Segregate the homophobes into homophobe platoons then, they're the minority here thats the issue, not the homosexuals in this case, since you put it that way.

    If someone's got a problem with it, they can leave and be in the hater brigade.

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I hesistate to comment on this. I was denied service in the Army due to my hearing, therefore I think my perspective on this is limited. Frankly I'd like to know one thing: is it going to adversely affect the morale of a large number of our military personnel? If the answer is yes, I'd be hesitant to force it on them. The purpose of the military is to fight wars effectively, not to be fair to everyone or be a platform for social experimentation.

    OTOH, since homosexuality is not a crime in the USA, it does seem inconsistent to treat it as one within the military.


    My chief concern is whether it will affect military readiness through adverse effects on morale. If an honest study says the answer is No, then it would be more consistent with domestic law to remove the restrictions.
    I don't think it would matter much in non-combat roles, but for many combat units the consequences could be increased unit friction. That's why I think it should be left up to the discretion of the commander, instead of the zero tolerance policy currently in effect. That, I think, would be a pragmatic middle ground between the two extremes (repeal it entirely or keep it as it is).

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Segregate the homophobes into homophobe platoons then, they're the minority here thats the issue, not the homosexuals in this case, since you put it that way.
    It depends on the unit.

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I hesistate to comment on this. I was denied service in the Army due to my hearing, therefore I think my perspective on this is limited. Frankly I'd like to know one thing: is it going to adversely affect the morale of a large number of our military personnel? If the answer is yes, I'd be hesitant to force it on them. The purpose of the military is to fight wars effectively, not to be fair to everyone or be a platform for social experimentation.

    OTOH, since homosexuality is not a crime in the USA, it does seem inconsistent to treat it as one within the military.


    My chief concern is whether it will affect military readiness through adverse effects on morale. If an honest study says the answer is No, then it would be more consistent with domestic law to remove the restrictions.
    There is a grand total of zero evidence it would negatively effect military readiness.
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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It depends on the unit.
    A unit full of phobes is about as likely as a unit full of homos. I dont see what the big deal is they're already serving incognito and 1/4 of soldiers are aware of homosexuals and seem fine with it.

    I dont see how sexuality is more disruptive than say, skin color or social class. especially when there shouldn't be any sex to be had in the army lol.

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There is a grand total of zero evidence it would negatively effect military readiness.

    Has any serious and objective study been done on it in the past ten years though? I haven't heard of one, and I'd want to know with reasonable assurance that it wasn't going to cause problems. If hardly any soldiers, sailors, airmen or marines care, then fine.

    Any studies older than ten years would be dubious, because of changing attitudes.

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    I am sure that the type of reaction that gays serving openly would get would depend alot on the type of unit that they were in. In softskill units that already have lots of women in them I doubt it would be to much of a problem. In infantry units where it is all males and most of them younger, I can see lots more problems. I dont care what some Admirals or Generals say, they are not down at the troop level and havent been in many years, they dont know how it will effect troops at the squad and platoon level or how those troops feel. I also see big problems in the Special Ops world. I was in the infantry 5 years ago and I am still in the Army and feel that I know better than a General about how the troops at that level feel which is where this decision will have the most impact. I am not saying that DADT is not worth changing just something to think about.
    President Franklin Roosevelt eulogized a fallen American Soldier by saying, “He stands in the unbroken line of patriots who have dared to die [that] freedom might live, and grow, and increase its blessings. Freedom lives, and through it he lives--in a way that humbles the undertakings of most men."

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    A unit full of phobes is about as likely as a unit full of homos.
    How do you know? The military has lots of different units.

    I dont see what the big deal is they're already serving incognito and 1/4 of soldiers are aware of homosexuals and seem fine with it.

    I dont see how sexuality is more disruptive than say, skin color or social class. especially when there shouldn't be any sex to be had in the army lol.
    I think men deal with homophobia differently than racism. I think the former has more to do with deep-seated insecurities or strongly held religious beliefs, which makes it more difficult to ameliorate in certain people. Just my opinion, of course...

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    I am sure that the type of reaction that gays serving openly would get would depend alot on the type of unit that they were in. In softskill units that already have lots of women in them I doubt it would be to much of a problem. In infantry units where it is all males and most of them younger, I can see lots more problems. I dont care what some Admirals or Generals say, they are not down at the troop level and havent been in many years, they dont know how it will effect troops at the squad and platoon level or how those troops feel. I also see big problems in the Special Ops world. I was in the infantry 5 years ago and I am still in the Army and feel that I know better than a General about how the troops at that level feel which is where this decision will have the most impact. I am not saying that DADT is not worth changing just something to think about.
    Totally agree. Civilians lend more weight to the higher-ups' word then they should. I know how Marines on the ground level will react to this way better than Admiral Mullen. He was never part of the lance corporal underground...

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Yes, because being gay means you are some sort of subhuman animal who cannot control their sex drive
    Well, you know the military doesn't have communal heterosexual showers for just the reason about men not being able to control themselves. Do you think it would be any difference with gays being in the general population now and not having to worry about hiding their desires?

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