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Thread: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I think it's against the rules to tell someone to grow up, isn't it?
    Of all the insults I've seen cast about on this forum, that is the least of them.

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I'll repeat this one more time...it doesn't matter that gays have a disproportionate number of HIV stats because gays are already in the military. So you can continually repeat the same thing over and over again, but that isn't the issue. The issue is how allowing gays to openly serve would be different than allowing them to secretly serve.
    Yes.

    That's why many of us were opposed to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", but since that scam was imposed by Clinton, the hypocrisy of it didn't surprise us.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The only answer you provided for that was "condoning sodomy" and "it is against the Uniform Code of Conduct". The former was addressed in Lawrence v. Texas, in which it was stated that the government has no business in what consenting adults do behind the closed door of their own bedrooms, and the latter is the issue we are discussing.
    The doors to the barracks and the showers are the government's doors, not the perverts' doors.

    Also, the UCMJ is independent of civil law, and a separate court ruling would have to be issued.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    In fact the latter is laughable since you are more or less saying, "The justification for this law is this law." So we repeal that section of the Code, and I guess that solves the problem of the latter.
    The justification of keeping gays out of the military is both unit cohesion and national security. A submarine or the inside of a tank is no place for hanky-panky between the guys.

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I think it's against the rules to tell someone to grow up, isn't it?
    Tell the mods to ban me, then.

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Yes.

    That's why many of us were opposed to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", but since that scam was imposed by Clinton, the hypocrisy of it didn't surprise us.
    Don't forget that DADT is the policy that Republicans say is working.

    The doors to the barracks and the showers are the government's doors, not the perverts' doors.
    Frankly, I don't think anyone is suppose to be having sex in the barracks or showers, whether it is straight people or gay people. Also, I take offense to the "pervert" comment, and I request that you refrain from using those kind of derogatory comments. What I am referring to is what soldiers do when on leave or in their own homes.

    Also, the UCMJ is independent of civil law, and a separate court ruling would have to be issued.
    UCMJ is federal law.

    The justification of keeping gays out of the military is both unit cohesion and national security.
    Let's think this out. 300 qualified Arab translators were dismissed from the military due to the DADT policy, during a war where we had a shortage of such translators. Vital intelligence may very well have been missed as result. Intelligence which may have kept people from needlessly getting killed. You can honestly say that is good for national security? I don't think so.

    A submarine or the inside of a tank is no place for hanky-panky between the guys.
    Agreed. What does that have to do with the DADT policy?

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    I don't know why people are even still discussing this as if it is an issue. The Joint Chiefs of Staff and top military brass are ready to repeal this policy and many top leaders have indicated that it is overdue since it undermines national security and forces people to lie in order to protect their country. All the "unit cohesion" arguments that are being made, are the same ones that were made when women were allowed to join and when the military was desegregated. The DADT policy makes little sense, but the biggest supporters of it are the Republican party, particularly John McCain who only a year ago said he would support a repeal of DADT if the Joint Chiefs of Staff and top military brass were behind such a repeal. The only justifications that have been up in regards to keeping this policy are that prejudice should dictate national security, that our military is not professional enough, and the gays serving secretly is somehow better for HIV rates than gays serving openly. None of these are valid or reasonable.

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I don't know why people are even still discussing this as if it is an issue. The Joint Chiefs of Staff and top military brass are ready to repeal this policy and many top leaders have indicated that it is overdue since it undermines national security and forces people to lie in order to protect their country. All the "unit cohesion" arguments that are being made, are the same ones that were made when women were allowed to join and when the military was desegregated. The DADT policy makes little sense, but the biggest supporters of it are the Republican party, particularly John McCain who only a year ago said he would support a repeal of DADT if the Joint Chiefs of Staff and top military brass were behind such a repeal. The only justifications that have been up in regards to keeping this policy are that prejudice should dictate national security, that our military is not professional enough, and the gays serving secretly is somehow better for HIV rates than gays serving openly. None of these are valid or reasonable.
    Because change is horribly scary to some people.

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The military needs all the good soldiers that it can get right now. Your argument supports the exact reason why we shouldn't be waiting.
    Our military is exceeding its recruitment quotas, so your argument makes no sense...

    Furthermore, you didn't actually address what I said, which is that we shouldn't be rocking the boat in the midst of two wars.

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    We are in the midst of two wars right now. Our combat units are the best in the world. Why do we need to rock the boat RIGHT NOW? Can't we wait until peace time?

    Oh wait...I must be saying this because I'm a homophobic right-winger!!! ZOMG!!!

    No. You say it because you have nothing else to make your argument on. We've had bigger social change in the military during more stressful wars and the "rocking" of the proverbial boat has been not been felt to any extensive point.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Our military is exceeding its recruitment quotas, so your argument makes no sense...

    Furthermore, you didn't actually address what I said, which is that we shouldn't be rocking the boat in the midst of two wars.
    Yeah, we shouldn't be rocking the boat by retaining more military personnel in the midst of three wars.

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    Re: Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Our military is exceeding its recruitment quotas, so your argument makes no sense...

    Furthermore, you didn't actually address what I said, which is that we shouldn't be rocking the boat in the midst of two wars.
    It's funny. The army called me just the other day.

    Of course, based on what you have told me, military service would not be in my, nor any other gay person's interest.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 02-03-10 at 07:46 PM.

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