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Pope Benedict attacks government over Equality Bill

Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

True, however the focus on it for everyone in this thread is on Christians, more specifically the catholics.

I have little doubt if this thread started as "Muslims Cleric launches attack....." because of them being forced to not discriminate in ways against women that there'd be some on here lauding this because they dislike the pope/christianity would be saying how its just bigoted anti-islamic fearmongering. At the same time, sadly, I imagine some trying to defend the pople would also be saying how its good they're finally forcing them out of the dark ages or some such idiocy.

When it comes to religion, often not just on this forum but anywhere on the net, I just haven't found many people who are consistant in their condemnation or views about things revolving around religions save for hardcore militant athiests who are consistant only in their utter contempt and hatred for it.

Ah I understand but I would assume the reason the focus is on Christians or more specifically Catholics is because it is the Pope who has made his objections loudest.

I agree with this bill because I see no harm in it. The law isn't going to force Mosques to suddenly employ women Imams or Churches Gay Priests. That is still up to them but in secular positions of employment, the law does come into force.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

True, however the focus on it for everyone in this thread is on Christians, more specifically the catholics.

I have little doubt if this thread started as "Muslims Cleric launches attack....." because of them being forced to not discriminate in ways against women that there'd be some on here lauding this because they dislike the pope/christianity would be saying how its just bigoted anti-islamic fearmongering. At the same time, sadly, I imagine some trying to defend the pople would also be saying how its good they're finally forcing them out of the dark ages or some such idiocy.

When it comes to religion, often not just on this forum but anywhere on the net, I just haven't found many people who are consistant in their condemnation or views about things revolving around religions save for hardcore militant athiests who are consistant only in their utter contempt and hatred for it.
You are changing the subject and moving the goal posts. This IS about Catholics.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Link
BBC News - Pope Benedict attacks government over Equality Bill

This from someone whose minions have sexually assaulted hundreds if not thousands of young children in their care.
Naturally all in the name of some archaic mumbo jumbo religion.
be fair. no one was assaulted in the name of mumbo jumbo religion. of course the pope is out of bounds, but neither should a church be forced to employ a gay if that is not their wish.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

In the US, the Constitution doesn't actually say that. It says:


So we need to keep government out of religion, but it doesn't say to keep religion out of government.

I am not sure, but it seems possible that the "free exercise" of religion may include being able to discriminate based on your religion's principles.

I wouldn't disagree. They are a private organization, they can do as they wish.
once we allow ANY religious doctrine to dictate what a gov't does, that's establishment of a gov't religion.

the church should be able to hire whomever they please.
 
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Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Total and utter nonsense, since it violates freedom of association. The people that go to those churches are also taxpayers so they that the right to reject such a person.

Tax dollars come with strings attached. If you're not willing to obey the strings, then give up the tax subsidies. Simple as that.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

As long as religious institutions are not forced to change their core fundamental doctrine, I see no problem with the UK Equality law. Since the law does not force the hiring of gay priests, female imams or rabbis and such, there is no issue here.

I do have to wonder what the Pope's problem is here. This affects only the secular jobs in connection with the church, such as accountants, secretaries, cleaning staff etc.. Why in the world would the church refuse to employ gays in these postions? Whatever happened to hate the sin, love the sinner? :confused: I guess that was just one more bull**** statement rammed down my throat during Catechism. :roll:

I think the Pope's reaction is utterly ridiculous and shamefully un-Catholic.
 
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Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Link
BBC News - Pope Benedict attacks government over Equality Bill

This from someone whose minions have sexually assaulted hundreds if not thousands of young children in their care.
Naturally all in the name of some archaic mumbo jumbo religion.

The law is a piece of **** and infringes upon free right to practice and express one's religion. It shouldn't be made at all, this is just more archaic PC mumbo jumbo infringing upon the rights and liberties of the individual once again.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Tax dollars come with strings attached. If you're not willing to obey the strings, then give up the tax subsidies. Simple as that.
No they don't. Welfare recipients don't have to invite me over for dinner because I paid for it.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

That should only happen if they're getting tax dollars.

Absolutely not. While I can be convinced (may even put for the argument myself) that churches and religions shouldn't get the tax breaks they enjoy now; you may not infringe upon the right to express and practice your religion. Absolutely not. The government may not go around imposing law against the free practice of the religion, even if they take tax dollar money. No way, no how; that right must be protected. As with all our rights.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

As long as religious institutions are not forced to change their core fundamental doctrine, I see no problem with the UK Equality law. Since the law does not force the hiring of gay priests, female imams or rabbis and such, there is no issue here.

I do have to wonder what the Pope's problem is here. This affects only the secular jobs in connection with the church, such as accountants, secretaries, cleaning staff etc.. Why in the world would the church refuse to employ gays in these postions? Whatever happened to hate the sin, love the sinner? :confused: I guess that was just one more bull**** statement rammed down my throat during Catechism. :roll:

I think the Pope's reaction is utterly ridiculous and shamefully un-Catholic.
teachers? many religions, not just catholic, require morals clauses for teachers.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Ah, that said, I misread the thing Redress posted. This DOESN'T apply to priests and such, but to their accountants and things of the sort?

Hmm, I still dislike this as in principle its still interfering with religion, but this is a much more nebulous gray area. Hm, not sure how I feel on this one.

Churches do not get to pick and choose what laws apply to them. Since Britain has a law that outlaws dissemination based on orientation, the church(whichever it might be, the Catholic one in this case) has to obey the law. The British government did make the exception for strictly religious jobs, such as priests, nuns, later boys, what have you, but if you are, say, an accountant for the church, you fall under the law of the land. This seems like a reasonable compromise.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Absolutely not. While I can be convinced (may even put for the argument myself) that churches and religions shouldn't get the tax breaks they enjoy now; you may not infringe upon the right to express and practice your religion. Absolutely not. The government may not go around imposing law against the free practice of the religion, even if they take tax dollar money. No way, no how; that right must be protected. As with all our rights.

Fine, then they don't deserve the tax dollars.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Fine, then they don't deserve the tax dollars.

Yeah, maybe they don't. Not going to disagree. But I'm not going to use tax dollars as excuse to limit freedom and liberty, to excuse the government....to actually defend the government, when it acts against the rights and liberties of the individual. I don't care if they get the tax dollars, the rights are absolute. Pinning this crap on government money is dangerous. Because all of us get "government money" somehow, in some manner. Do police services come with strings? Roads? Well yes, the federal government blackmails the States into having the 21 years for alcohol law by refusing to allocate my money they took in part to keep and maintain the roads unless the State's comply with the Federal government's will. That's crap. Utter bull****.

The churches get tax breaks, fine. Maybe we should get rid of them, that's another topic. But the rights are absolute, and must be upheld to their maximum! No ands, ifs, or buts about it.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Freedom of association is as important as freedom of speech. Of course the Pope is correct on this one.

Funny thing is the UK has been loosing freedoms so fast, I don't think they even realize how much they have given up at this point.

This law is wrong and I am glad the US, has no law this stupid.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Discrimination as a whole is unacceptable.

No it's not, in fact it's very necessary. As an elitist, I say to the best, most qualified goes the spoils. That's a form of discrimination. I most certainly discriminate on the basis of ability.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

No it's not, in fact it's very necessary. As an elitist, I say to the best, most qualified goes the spoils. That's a form of discrimination. I most certainly discriminate on the basis of ability.

Ability is one thing. If a person cannot do a job or doesn't do it as well as the next person. That is fine.
My problem lies in if the discrimination occurs not on ability but something like race or sexuality.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Funny thing is the UK has been loosing freedoms so fast, I don't think they even realize how much they have given up at this point.

Frankly this law is nothing important nor anything to worry about.

I am more worried over the digital economy bill which would make ISP's spy on citizens on the internet and cut them off if they fileshare
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Freedom of association is as important as freedom of speech. Of course the Pope is correct on this one.

Funny thing is the UK has been loosing freedoms so fast, I don't think they even realize how much they have given up at this point.

This law is wrong and I am glad the US, has no law this stupid.

You have no anti-discrimination laws in the US? Since when?
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Yeah, maybe they don't. Not going to disagree. But I'm not going to use tax dollars as excuse to limit freedom and liberty, to excuse the government....to actually defend the government, when it acts against the rights and liberties of the individual. I don't care if they get the tax dollars, the rights are absolute. Pinning this crap on government money is dangerous. Because all of us get "government money" somehow, in some manner. Do police services come with strings? Roads? Well yes, the federal government blackmails the States into having the 21 years for alcohol law by refusing to allocate my money they took in part to keep and maintain the roads unless the State's comply with the Federal government's will. That's crap. Utter bull****.

The churches get tax breaks, fine. Maybe we should get rid of them, that's another topic. But the rights are absolute, and must be upheld to their maximum! No ands, ifs, or buts about it.

No one twists the arms of any faith-based organization and forces them to take tax dollars. So if they don't want to hire gay social workers, then they should provide their services to the community with their own money; not mine.

Besides, how does this impede their religious freedom? No one is dictating what they should be allowed to believe and preach. I thought Christians were supposed to hate the sin and love the sinner. Not much love coming from any so-called Christian church that says "you can't work for us because you're gay".
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

You have no anti-discrimination laws in the US? Since when?

I thought US had affirmative action ... :/
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Link
BBC News - Pope Benedict attacks government over Equality Bill

This from someone whose minions have sexually assaulted hundreds if not thousands of young children in their care.
Naturally all in the name of some archaic mumbo jumbo religion.

II - All Opening Post threads posted in *BN* must have:

• Static link to an article from a bona-fide news organization.
• Dateline within the past 48 hours.
• Exact same title as the cited article.
Quoted short excerpts from the article.
• Your own unique content to spur discussion.


I mean, come on people wtf, this isn't hard.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Ability is one thing. If a person cannot do a job or doesn't do it as well as the next person. That is fine.
My problem lies in if the discrimination occurs not on ability but something like race or sexuality.

Yes, I knew you'd be for certain forms of discrimination, that's why I made the comment. To show that your blanket statement against discrimination is wrong. However, on that light, I think it is within the ability of a private company or religion to discriminate in any manner they see fit; so long as they don't actually infringe upon the rights of someone else. That condition is not fulfilled if someone isn't hired because of X. No rights are infringed upon, the job belongs to a private company and it is up to that company to hire who they want. Of course, elitism along only ability means is the best way to go for any company competing in the free market; but it's their choice. And if we don't like it, we don't have to buy their services. It's pretty easy to maintain and control if you just pay attention.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

No one twists the arms of any faith-based organization and forces them to take tax dollars. So if they don't want to hire gay social workers, then they should provide their services to the community with their own money; not mine.

Do not care. The rights are absolute, not the money.

Besides, how does this impede their religious freedom? No one is dictating what they should be allowed to believe and preach. I thought Christians were supposed to hate the sin and love the sinner. Not much love coming from any so-called Christian church that says "you can't work for us because you're gay".

They are free to practice and express as they want. They are private and can hire whom they want. If they want to only associate and assemble with those of like mind and those whom are in compliance with their religious laws that is their business. If they don't want gay people in their church, they are free to keep them out.
 
Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

Having read the article, I couldn't see what this is all about. What is the law and what is that law doing?
 
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