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Thread: Pope Benedict attacks government over Equality Bill

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I don't really see any difference. Why is one regulation acceptable when it involves protecting the environement from damage, but another is not when it involves protecting minorities from discrimination?
    Hmmm...you can't see a difference between a poisoned well and hurt feelings?

    And you want us to try to explain it to you?

    Why should we bother?

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Nuff said.



    What????

    Quota's are a direct result of anti discrimination laws.

    Your hearts in the right place, but involving a PC and over reacting government is just plain stupid. This is what you are advocating.



    And in the process it widens the racial divide and directly causes quota's, jealousy and an entitlement mind set.

    They are doing more harm then good.



    Affirmative action IS AN ANTI DISCRIMINATION LAW. They are not separate.



    The problems I mentioned are a direct result of anti discrimination laws. They and the associated problems are a direct result courts or not.
    The clash here may be because our societies are different. We don't have the same social baggage here in Euope, so I'm having a hard time relating to your opposition to these laws. We have little to no experience with affirmative action laws over here, which seem to be your main point of contention as you equate the two kinds of laws.

    Quotas are not a result of anti-discrimination laws, they're a result of affirmative action laws. Anti-discrimination laws do not require anyone to hire a set number of employees of a specific gender or race. Affirmative action laws do.

    Also, I agree with Scarecrow, affirmative action laws are not the same as anti-discrimination laws. Affirmative action is reverse discrimination and as I said earlier I am not in favor of it, because it is just another form of discrimination.
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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I don't really see any difference. Why is one regulation acceptable when it involves protecting the environement from damage, but another is not when it involves protecting minorities from discrimination?
    1. discrimination doesn't threaten one's health.
    2. discrimination doesn't create predatory business practices (another acceptable regulation).
    3. protecting minorities from discrimination skews the talent pool of the workforce and is unfair to businesses. This prevents the market from optimizing.
    4. protecting minorities from discrimination is social engineering and prevents the minorities from improving themselves.
    5. protecting minorities from discrimination creates another government assistance for minorities to unfairly take advantage of. It reduces individual responsibility.

  4. #154
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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Hmmm...you can't see a difference between a poisoned well and hurt feelings?

    And you want us to try to explain it to you?

    Why should we bother?
    I want you to explain to me why one kind of regulation is acceptable, but another is not. Why should the government be allowed to force a company to be environmentally responsible, but not force a company to be socially responsible?

    I don't really care about hurt feelings. I care about living in a civilized society that refuses to allow certain elements to become second class citizens.
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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    1. discrimination doesn't threaten one's health.
    2. discrimination doesn't create predatory business practices (another acceptable regulation).
    3. protecting minorities from discrimination skews the talent pool of the workforce and is unfair to businesses. This prevents the market from optimizing.
    4. protecting minorities from discrimination is social engineering and prevents the minorities from improving themselves.
    5. protecting minorities from discrimination creates another government assistance for minorities to unfairly take advantage of. It reduces individual responsibility.
    I think you're making the same amalgam with affirmative action laws that Blackdog is making. Anti-discrimination laws do not force anyone to hire anybody. If you're not suited for a job, you should not get it.

    Discrimination may very well threaten a person's health if insurance companies are allowed to discriminate against some elements of society.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post


    Affirmative action IS AN ANTI DISCRIMINATION LAW. They are not separate.
    It is AN anti discrimination law. However, anti discrimination laws are not affirmative action.
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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I think you're making the same amalgam with affirmative action laws that Blackdog is making. Anti-discrimination laws do not force anyone to hire anybody. If you're not suited for a job, you should not get it.
    Perhaps you are right. Ok, what the hell is an anti-discrimination law?

    The best I have come up with is the Equal Opportunity Act. Here is a summary of Federal Laws prohibiting job discrimination: Federal Laws Prohibiting Job Discrimination: Questions And Answers I agree with some of these: age, disabilities but not others: gender, race.

    If it isn't defining quotas, then the accuser must prove discrimination occurred? That doesn't sound easy to do. I could have sworn that I have heard accusers make their case by looking at the percentages of various minorities employed at a business and if a minority isn't up to quota, the company gets dinged for discrimination. So they do bring about soft quotas.

    Discrimination may very well threaten a person's health if insurance companies are allowed to discriminate against some elements of society.
    Ok, I think on this one you are wrong. Anti-discrimination has to do with employment. However an insurance company absolutely cannot refuse a customer because of gender, race, age, or disability. If that is also covered under anti-discrimination law, then I am all for that aspect of it.
    Last edited by reefedjib; 02-03-10 at 03:07 PM.

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I agree with some of these: age, disabilities but not others: gender, race.
    ****. If I agree with one, I suppose I will have to agree to them all.

    Ok, I am fine with that as long as it doesn't imply quotas or affirmative action.
    Last edited by reefedjib; 02-03-10 at 03:14 PM.

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Perhaps you are right. Ok, what the hell is an anti-discrimination law?

    The best I have come up with is the Equal Opportunity Act. Here is a summary of Federal Laws prohibiting job discrimination: Federal Laws Prohibiting Job Discrimination: Questions And Answers I agree with some of these: age, disabilities but not others: gender, race.

    If it isn't defining quotas, then the accuser must prove discrimination occurred? That doesn't sound easy to do. I could have sworn that I have heard accusers make their case by looking at the percentages of various minorities employed at a business and if a minority isn't up to quota, the company gets dinged for discrimination. So they do bring about soft quotas.



    Ok, I think on this one you are wrong. Anti-discrimination has to do with employment. However an insurance company absolutely cannot refuse a customer because of gender, race, age, or disability. If that is also covered under anti-discrimination law, then I am all for that aspect of it.
    It may have the potential to bring about soft quotas, I'll agree with that. Like I said earlier in the thread, proving discrimination will indeed be very hard to do. One of the ways to try and prove it could be by checking if there are any other employees or former employees of the same minority, as you said. Either way, it's not going to be easy.

    Also, the reason insurance companies are not allowed to refuse to discriminate against minorities is because of existing anti-discrimination laws. The new Equality law in the UK takes it a few steps further by including sexual orientation as well as gender reassignment.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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