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Thread: Pope Benedict attacks government over Equality Bill

  1. #121
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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Like I said, there is no such thing as a "secular position" in the Catholic Church. Administrators are expected to be as much a part of the religious community as the Priests.

    It's not like the Catholic community has separate buildings for theological purposes and secular purposes. They're ALL part of the Church; they're ALL theological. You cannot make a distinction between the two in the eyes of a Catholic; they all serve the same theological end.
    I disagree. A Catholic hospital has a different purpose than theology. The doctors, nurses, orderlies, security personnel, cleaning staff etc.. are not there for theological purposes.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I disagree. A Catholic hospital has a different purpose than theology. The doctors, nurses, orderlies, security personnel, cleaning staff etc.. are not there for theological purposes.
    Okay, this is a valid point, but the fact remains, on a communal level, there is no such thing as a secular position.

    I was a Catholic for a long while, and I know there is no religious distinction between the administrative buildings and the actual Church itself. In fact, the "administrative wing" of many Catholic communities is at the Priest's home. It usually serves the duel purpose of housing the clergy and managing the Church's finances.

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I disagree. A Catholic hospital has a different purpose than theology. The doctors, nurses, orderlies, security personnel, cleaning staff etc.. are not there for theological purposes.
    It may be, but it doesn't mean the Church can't require them to be Catholic.

  4. #124
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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    It may be, but it doesn't mean the Church can't require them to be Catholic.
    Do they, though? I don't think it's a requirement.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Do they, though? I don't think it's a requirement.
    No idea. If they don't, can't they still discriminate? Anyone but gays, for instance.

  6. #126
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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    It's perfectly expected to refuse to hire someone who is obviously not qualified for the job and who doesn't possess the necessarily personality traits to handle a multicultural environment. It's not okay to refuse employment based solely on race, religion, gender or sexual orientation.
    This is a perfect example of why we have fireman who can't rescue people from a burring building.

    If it is a private company they certainly can fire or not hire someone based on whatever reason they like. It is called freedom of choice.

    Fortunately here in the US, we understand this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    No one is being forced to hire anyone. They're just being told that sexual orientation alone is not a valid reason to refuse someone employment when they are otherwise perfectly qualified for the job.
    In most states in the US they have what is called "at will" employment. They can hire and fire for whatever reason they like.

    This works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I understand the concept of sin just fine. I grew up Catholic. As such, I was told to hate the sin and love the sinner. But, like everything else, they were just meaningless, empty words. As the reaction of the Pope himself proves, when it comes to gays, the new motto seems to be "hate the sin, hate the sinner, ostracize him/her". Too bad they don't feel the same about the bad apples in their midst. If they did, at least I could commend their consistency.
    Obviously you don't understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #127
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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    No idea. If they don't, can't they still discriminate? Anyone but gays, for instance.
    I don't think they discriminate against anyone other than gays. But if they did, I don't think they should be granted special permission to do so. I believe discrimination is harmful to society and minorities should be protected. I can understand a stated preference for Catholic employees, but there's no valid reason to refuse a Jewish or Muslim doctor if he comes highly recommended. It can only benefit the hospital to have the best people on staff.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I don't think they discriminate against anyone other than gays. But if they did, I don't think they should be granted special permission to do so. I believe discrimination is harmful to society and minorities should be protected. I can understand a stated preference for Catholic employees, but there's no valid reason to refuse a Jewish or Muslim doctor if he comes highly recommended. It can only benefit the hospital to have the best people on staff.
    I agree it shoudln't be a special permission for Catholics. It should be consistently applied.

    I think minorities should not be given special allowance. They should not be guaranteed jobs, that take those jobs from others more qualified (no affirmative action). If a firm wants to discriminate, it should be their prerogative. A government owned business (Universities, CIty hospitals, police, etc...) should not discriminate. If a Catholic hospital doesn't want to take the more qualified gay doctor, then they can.

  9. #129
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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This is a perfect example of why we have fireman who can't rescue people from a burring building.

    If it is a private company they certainly can fire or not hire someone based on whatever reason they like. It is called freedom of choice.

    Fortunately here in the US, we understand this.
    I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I'm talking about hiring the best person for the job and you tell me about totally useless firemen?


    In most states in the US they have what is called "at will" employment. They can hire and fire for whatever reason they like.

    This works.
    Obviously. It results in firemen who can't even do their job. Score.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  10. #130
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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I agree it shoudln't be a special permission for Catholics. It should be consistently applied.

    I think minorities should not be given special allowance. They should not be guaranteed jobs, that take those jobs from others more qualified (no affirmative action). If a firm wants to discriminate, it should be their prerogative. A government owned business (Universities, CIty hospitals, police, etc...) should not discriminate. If a Catholic hospital doesn't want to take the more qualified gay doctor, then they can.
    I don't agree with affirmative action either. It's not needed anymore. I'm not talking about them being guaranteed jobs. If they're not qualified, they shouldn't get the job. Anti-discrimination laws aren't about making sure people get hired, they're about ensuring they stand the same chance as everyone else to get the job. In theory, of course. In practice, people will covertly discriminate regardless of the law.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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