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Thread: Pope Benedict attacks government over Equality Bill

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Why do these particular employers get afforded the right to openly discriminate? Either the law applies to all employers or it doesn't.
    Easy enough.

    Get the government out of the workplace.

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    What kind of work atmosphere do you create when you mix a Catholic, atheist and Muslim in the same work area? A hostile work environment.
    And yet most institutions will hire any of them, or all of them with no problem. Why should a, for example, catholic hospital be above the same laws as every other employer?
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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I'm not sure I understand what exactly you're objecting to. Equal pay for equal work is not socialistic in nature. Why should somebody's gender determine their salary, everything else being equal? What would really be socialistic and utterly non-sensical too, would be to pay everyone the same salary regardless of qualifications. But that's not what this law is about.

    This is not about some sort of affirmative action, it's about equality in the eyes of the law.
    I wasn't clear enough, it seems.
    It is not a "same gender same rank = same salary" law, but rather a "same gender = same salary" law, disregarding the ranks.

    The disparities between the female workers and male workers salaries was created mainly because of the difference between the percentage of high positioned males and the percentage of high positioned females in the organizations, and one cannot simply force the company to balance that by promoting/hiring unsuitable females to high ranked positions in the company, or to simply raise the salary of the low-ranking female workers over that of the low-ranking male workers - that is blind social equality and that is what socialism is about.
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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And yet most institutions will hire any of them, or all of them with no problem. Why should a, for example, catholic hospital be above the same laws as every other employer?
    Why should the employer be subject to govermental whim on who he hires?

    It's not the government's business, it's his business.

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    It is not a "same gender same rank = same salary" law, but rather a "same gender = same salary" law, disregarding the ranks.
    Again, what business is it of the government's?

    If an employee feels they're underpaid, they have every freedom to find a new job.

    That's how it works in free societies.

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And yet most institutions will hire any of them, or all of them with no problem. Why should a, for example, catholic hospital be above the same laws as every other employer?
    Because they are private organizations and not for profit organizations.

    Pretty simple.
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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    This is none of the Pope's business. He's not a British citizen, so he needs to butt out.
    The Catholic Church has business branches open all over England, so as CEO of the Catholic Church, the Pope has every reason to comment and persuade.

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    What kind of work atmosphere do you create when you mix a Catholic, atheist and Muslim in the same work area? A hostile work environment. This does not work very well. Look at the divisive arguments here about religion, not lets throw that in the work place.
    That is not necessarily true. It all depends on the people in question. The ability to work with people of different faiths, genders and sexual orientation should be a valid criteria on which to base the hiring process. If someone is obviously not capable of working in such an environment, they should not be hired. Their religion, gender or sexual orientation does not come into play here. Their flexibility as employees does.

    Please, why do people always have to bring race into it? Race is not religion and has nothing to do with this issue at all. A person has no choice in what race they are. People most certainly pick the religion they are.
    It was just an example. It does have everything to do with this issue seeing as the law, as I understand it, is trying to outlaw employer discrimination based on race, religion, gender and sexual orientation. When religious institutions act as secular employers, they absolutely should be subject to this law.

    What does not make sense is why you think it would be OK for a Catholic organization to be forced to hire a Wikkan or Muslim??? And visa versa.
    No one is forcing them to hire anyone, BG. The law doesn't require them to hire gay Wiccan ex Muslims or else. The law simply states that they can't use someone's race, religion, gender or sexual orientation as a valid reason to refuse employment. Your anti-discrimination laws are exactly the same, except for the weird exception you grant some employers to openly discriminate against certain potential employees. I just can't wrap my head around the concept that a Catholic hospital can openly discriminate against gay doctors, but a regular hospital can't do the same without risking a lawsuit.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Easy enough.

    Get the government out of the workplace.
    Heh.

    Yeah, maybe. I'm not sure it wouldn't create many more problems than it would solve, though.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Pope launches attack on UK equality law

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I wasn't clear enough, it seems.
    It is not a "same gender same rank = same salary" law, but rather a "same gender = same salary" law, disregarding the ranks.

    The disparities between the female workers and male workers salaries was created mainly because of the difference between the percentage of high positioned males and the percentage of high positioned females in the organizations, and one cannot simply force the company to balance that by promoting/hiring unsuitable females to high ranked positions in the company, or to simply raise the salary of the low-ranking female workers over that of the low-ranking male workers - that is blind social equality and that is what socialism is about.
    Ok, I can agree with all that, but is this really what this Equality law is about? Is this law trying to force UK companies to pay women higher salaries than their rank deserves?

    I don't see where it states that.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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