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Thread: White House to paint grim fiscal picture: source

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    Re: White House to paint grim fiscal picture: source

    Quote Originally Posted by pugetsoundwa View Post
    Taxes are not too high. At 35% they are at near record lows. Even if they go back to Clinton era rates of 39.6% they will still be lower then most of our past..Taxes are a weak excuse for failures to blame something or someone other then themselves for not being a success...
    I actually think corporate taxes are a bit high and I think the multi million dollar bonses for investment bankers is way to low.

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    Re: White House to paint grim fiscal picture: source

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    First, eliminate the spending that provides people the means to exercise their rights. If anything is needed after that, then cut anything that does not go directly towards protecting the rights of the people.
    Huh? Those sound identical to me. What kind of spending are you referring to, when you say spending that provides people the means to exercise their rights? Military and police?

    I'm assuming that's not what you mean (although I really don't know what you *do* mean), so when you say "eliminate" this spending is it politically/economically realistic? If not, then you aren't actually thinking about the issue, and how it can realistically be improved. If I want to read what life would be like in Ronpaultopia, I can read Atlas Shrugged instead of your forum posts.
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    Re: White House to paint grim fiscal picture: source

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Huh? Those sound identical to me. What kind of spending are you referring to, when you say spending that provides people the means to exercise their rights? Military and police?

    I'm assuming that's not what you mean (although I really don't know what you *do* mean), so when you say "eliminate" this spending is it politically/economically realistic? If not, then you aren't actually thinking about the issue, and how it can realistically be improved. If I want to read what life would be like in Ronpaultopia, I can read Atlas Shrugged instead of your forum posts.

    I would suggest that you do indeed read Atlas Shrugged, as well as Liberty and Tyranny by Mark Levin. You may just learn something.


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    Re: White House to paint grim fiscal picture: source

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Huh? Those sound identical to me. What kind of spending are you referring to, when you say spending that provides people the means to exercise their rights? Military and police?
    Spending that provides people the means to exercise their rights should be plain.
    Spending that does not go towards protecting the rights of the people would include things like international/foreign aid, subsidies to R&B of various technolgies, NASA, etc.

    so when you say "eliminate" this spending is it politically/economically realistic?
    If you tie "politically realistic" to spending cuts, then there isn't ANY spending that can be cut, and so you're asking a question that cannot be answered.

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    Re: White House to paint grim fiscal picture: source

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I would suggest that you do indeed read Atlas Shrugged, as well as Liberty and Tyranny by Mark Levin. You may just learn something.
    Already read Atlas Shrugged...twice. I thought it was awesome when I was a senior in high school. Then I re-read it a couple years ago and realized how laughably ridiculous it really is, both from a philosophical and a literary perspective.
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    Re: White House to paint grim fiscal picture: source

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Spending that provides people the means to exercise their rights should be plain.
    Spending that does not go towards protecting the rights of the people would include things like international/foreign aid, subsidies to R&B of various technolgies, NASA, etc.
    I'm not following you. How do foreign aid and NASA help people exercise their rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman
    If you tie "politically realistic" to spending cuts, then there isn't ANY spending that can be cut, and so you're asking a question that cannot be answered.
    If you believe that then you aren't actually interested in solving the problem. You'd much rather deliver angry utopian rants than try to come up with solutions. Here are a few of my suggestions to balance the budget, that AREN'T as politically ridiculous as "Eliminate all entitlement spending tomorrow":

    1. Set up an independent commission to set prices/benefits for Medicare and Medicaid, instead of letting Congress do it.
    2. Gradually raise the retirement age for social security, starting no earlier than 2020.
    3. Tax incentives for people to have individual/catastrophic health insurance plans, and disincentives for people to have group/comprehensive health insurance plans.
    4. Make social security means-tested. It was supposed to be an anti-poverty program, not a source of retirement for every elderly person regardless of income.
    5. Raise the top income tax rate a couple percentage points, starting no earlier than 2012.
    6. Set up an independent commission to examine wasteful spending in the Department of Defense, and require an up-or-down vote on their recommendations from Congress.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-02-10 at 03:34 PM.
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    Re: White House to paint grim fiscal picture: source

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'm not following you. How do foreign aid and NASA help people exercise their rights?
    These would be examples of spending that does not provide people the means to exercise their rights, but also does not go to protecting the rights of the people.

    If you believe that then you aren't actually interested in solving the problem.
    As I said -- If you tie "politically realistic" to spending cuts, then there isn't ANY spending that can be cut, and so you're asking a question that cannot be answered.
    Given that -- neither are you.

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    Re: White House to paint grim fiscal picture: source

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    "Cut spending" is a two-cent answer. I'm asking what spending you would cut and how, given political and economic realities (as opposed to how things would be in Ronpaultopia). And don't say "all of it." That's just stupid.
    Tell all people under thirty that they're not going to be eligible for Socialist Security, since that Ponzi Scheme is unconstitutional and will be phased out. Tell people under fifty that they have plenty of time under the new rules to plan for their retirements, and they're going to be means tested for benefits, and they really should aim at building up a nice greedy nest egg because even if they do qualify for a Socialist Security check, it ain't gonna be much. Adjust taxes so the program is solvent until it's termination, then eliminate the taxes.

    Progressively fire government workers as the work load decreases.

    Unfortunately, a disease that takes 70 years to metastasize isn't going to get cured overnight.

    That will take care of close to 50% of the current US budget.

    While this is in progress, identify and cut the other unconstitutional socialist programs. Education should be funded by the local and state governments, if a state is foolish enough to believe it has a responsibility to provide education.

    If someone wants to exercise his freedom to not have insurance, he can be allowed to exercise his freedom to die. He does not, and never has had, the freedom to demand strangers pay for his care. No government subsidies of health care.

    No government subsidies of practically anything that's not allowed in the Constitution. Oil exploration, farming, HIV free needles for stupid people, etc. None of that should be paid for with taxpayer dollars. Just in case people don't realize it, the taxpayer usually can think of something to do with is money, without any help from the Nanny Socialists.

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    Re: White House to paint grim fiscal picture: source

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    1. Set up an independent commission to set prices/benefits for Medicare and Medicaid, instead of letting Congress do it.
    Better yet, phase out this waste-ridden inefficient example of the failure of government when it interferes in the free market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    2. Gradually raise the retirement age for social security, starting no earlier than 2020.
    Yes. Advance the retirement age two years for every year that passes after 2020.

    That'll save TONS of money, and the way the government has been printing money lately, that's how money will be measured by 2020. And we all love and trust our government to make sure our investments will be fat and happy, just like in 2008.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    3. Tax incentives for people to have individual/catastrophic health insurance plans, and disincentives for people to have group/comprehensive health insurance plans.
    Better yet, get the government out of the micromanipulation social engineering nonsense and don't let the tax code even see what kind of health coverage anyone has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    4. Make social security means-tested. It was supposed to be an anti-poverty program, not a source of retirement for every elderly person regardless of income.
    Until it's phased out completely. Don't forget that part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    5. Raise the top income tax rate a couple percentage points, starting no earlier than 2012.
    You have some perverse desire to shut the economy down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    6. Set up an independent commission to examine wasteful spending in the Department of Defense, and require an up-or-down vote on their recommendations from Congress.
    Yes, ONLY the DoD. Don't let the government look at Medicare/Medicaid, with a $50B estimated waste in 2009, don't look at the Dept of Education, fraught with waste and useless programs, don't look at the Depts of Energy, Veterans Affairs, Interior, etc etc etc,. ONLY the DoD has waste, we all know this to be true.

    Right?

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    Re: White House to paint grim fiscal picture: source

    Let us examine YOUR suggestions, thru the filters you specified.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    1. Set up an independent commission to set prices/benefits for Medicare and Medicaid, instead of letting Congress do it.
    Politically impossible. Congress will never do this.

    2. Gradually raise the retirement age for social security, starting no earlier than 2020.
    Can you show that this will provide any meaningful savings?
    And what about the negative consequences for doing so?
    Will the AARP ever allow such a thing?

    3. Tax incentives for people to have individual/catastrophic health insurance plans, and disincentives for people to have group/comprehensive health insurance plans.
    Can you show that this will provide any meaningful savings?
    And what about the negative consequences for doing so?

    4. Make social security means-tested. It was supposed to be an anti-poverty program, not a source of retirement for every elderly person regardless of income.
    Do those that are means-tested out have to pay into the system?
    If the answer is no, will the AARP ever allow such a thing?

    5. Raise the top income tax rate a couple percentage points, starting no earlier than 2012.
    Can you show that this will provide any meaningful savings?
    And what about the negative consequences for doing so?

    6. Set up an independent commission to examine wasteful spending in the Department of Defense.... and Social Security and Medicare and medicaid and all other spending programs... and require an up-or-down vote on their recommendations from Congress
    Politically impossible. Congress will never do this.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 02-02-10 at 04:00 PM.

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