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Baptist Group Accused of Child Trafficking

ptif219 said:
So it is better to leave them starving in the street?
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Who said they were starving? No where in the material anywhere on the net does it say they were starving children.

But today we learn, that of the 33 children, 21 were not even orphans. They came in fact from the same village and were willingly given up by the parents/relatives or so it seems. Even if the parents willing gave up these children, then it STILL requires official documentation and permission from the authorities and still does not explain why these 10 said they were orphans when they were not. What else did they "lie" about?

Haiti says US missionaries could face kidnapping charges - Telegraph

I fully understand the situation in Haitii but that does not excuse these people for breaking local laws and international law on the subject regardless of their intentions.
 
jallman said:
Can you show where in this article it says that orphans were just picked up meters from their homes? kthanx
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This article no.

But was widely reported on the TV news over here and it fits with the reports we are now getting that 21 out 33 were from the same village and "given up" by the parents/relatives.

Not that it really matters.. the facts are coming out.

Not orphans, no documentation, no permission from the government and sketchy permission from parents/relatives. Add to that a ban on adoptions or/and taking children out of Haiti, I simply can not phantom how anyone could defend these peoples action regardless of the motive.

Yes it was a noble motive (if true) to help these children, but it does not change the fact the 10 lied, did not have permission or documentation and so on. Under international law and Haitian law this is child trafficking pure and simple.

There was a case a few years ago when "well meaning" French charity workers from some church also, were busted for doing exactly the same thing with 107 children in Chad. It was wrong then and is wrong now.
 
PeteEU said:
This article no.
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OK, then your attempt to smear these men and women as having scooped up children off their doorsteps is noted and dismissed as you blatantly lying.
 
PeteEU said:
Sorry if I believe in the rule of law.

Sorry if I believe that people who break rules should suffer the consequences of breaking such rules.

Sorry if I believe that being stupid or religious is not an excuse for not following the law.

This has nothing to do with them being Americans, or religious.. I could care less about that. You and others seem to be using these 2 facts as some sort of excuse for their actions, which is pathetic attitude. Just because you are religious or an American, does not mean that you can dismiss local laws and rules as you see fit.

For god sake, some of the kids were not even freaking orphans and were picked off the street often meters from their homes..
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You're such an unbelievable phony. This has everything to do with your hatred of all things American and Christian. You're not fooling anyone with your nonsense.

Sorry if I believe in the rule of law!! In Haiti...:roll:

Last time I checked, the law was not the ultimate moral authority in the universe, and your silly appeal to the law is nothing more than a convenient bumper-sticker sentiment that fails to encapsulate the ethical complexity of the situation.

These people were trying to save the lives of innocent children in a ravaged country with a hopelessly corrupt government, and you condemn them without hesitation because they supposedly broke the laws of a country that really doesn't have any real laws to begin with. I suppose you'd be trying to uphold the rule of law in Somalia, too?

We see right through your diaphanous bumper-sticker slogans, Pete. But please, continue making an ass of yourself, like you always do...
 
Christians are supposed to be law abiding and now this ..tsk ..tsk
 
PeteEU said:
Who said they were starving? No where in the material anywhere on the net does it say they were starving children.

But today we learn, that of the 33 children, 21 were not even orphans. They came in fact from the same village and were willingly given up by the parents/relatives or so it seems. Even if the parents willing gave up these children, then it STILL requires official documentation and permission from the authorities and still does not explain why these 10 said they were orphans when they were not. What else did they "lie" about?

Haiti says US missionaries could face kidnapping charges - Telegraph

I fully understand the situation in Haitii but that does not excuse these people for breaking local laws and international law on the subject regardless of their intentions.
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The parents are willing to give them up because of the poverty. That means a need for food and water.
 
ptif219 said:
The parents are willing to give them up because of the poverty. That means a need for food and water.
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You don't know that. There is a lot we don't know about this.

Which is why I re-emphasize that it is premature to make a conclusion as to who is right and wrong with so little information available as of yet.
 
Groucho said:
You don't know that. There is a lot we don't know about this.

Which is why I re-emphasize that it is premature to make a conclusion as to who is right and wrong with so little information available as of yet.
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But you must admit that this portrayal of Pete's that they were riding around snatching unsuspecting kids up off their doorsteps to take them to the Dominican Republic is a bit dishonest considering what we already do know.

What does he think these baptists were doing? Fulfilling their master plan to run their very own Dominican orphanage by repopulating it with Haitians?

That's just dumb.
 
Groucho said:
You don't know that. There is a lot we don't know about this.

Which is why I re-emphasize that it is premature to make a conclusion as to who is right and wrong with so little information available as of yet.
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So poverty in Haiti is not the reason?
JC-hysterical.gif
 
ptif219 said:
So they were helping who they could.
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Does the rest of the US contingent wisk victims across the border into the DR in order to give the food and water?

Victim: I need food and water.

US Relief Worker: Quick, cross the border with me and Jesus will feed you ;)
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
Does the rest of the US contingent wisk victims across the border into the DR in order to give the food and water?

Victim: I need food and water.

US Relief Worker: Quick, cross the border with me and Jesus will feed you ;)
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There's also no indication that this is what happened either. Let's at least make an attempt at honesty before you start with the typical Christian bashing.
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
Does the rest of the US contingent wisk victims across the border into the DR in order to give the food and water?

Victim: I need food and water.

US Relief Worker: Quick, cross the border with me and Jesus will feed you ;)
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Nice try but sounds like sarcasm and BS to me
 
ptif219 said:
So poverty in Haiti is not the reason?
JC-hysterical.gif
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:confused:

Sometimes I think you guys look to see if someone is listed as being "liberal" and then post something that has absolutely nothing to do what was said, make a smiley to make yourself feel superior, and then sit back thinking that somehow you have made a good point and that everyone is in awe of your superior debating skills.

It's a puzzle, that's for sure.
 
I dont believe these people are bad people.However you cant just take children and i think the law has to be pretty consistent on that point.
 
jallman said:
Let's at least make an attempt at honesty before you start with the typical Christian bashing.
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Since I'm a Christian, I can make fun of my fellow Christians all I want.
 
jallman said:
Sure, if you want to sould like an extra chromosome carrying retard...
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To each his own, but I'm an equal opportunity basher. I slam all groups and show no favoritism toward my own.
 
What a PR nightmare. Americans don't take kindly to foreign countries putting our people in jail. I wonder how much donations went down because of this?

What a damn shame that parents have to give their children away cause they can't give them an education or a good life.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
BTW it normally takes 3 years to adopt a child from Haiti. Any good guesses why it takes that long? I'll bet it has something to do with milking the prospective parents as much as possible. :roll:
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Given the fact that there are children in America needing adoption, why should anyone adopt from elsewhere?

Is it like picking up a puppy from the pet store instead of the pound, or what? Are they trophies to someone's wonderful caring giving nature? Do the adoptive parents think they're doing a special favor by rescuing these kids from their native land....when there are equally deserving kids in this country?
 
Groucho said:
Which is why I re-emphasize that it is premature to make a conclusion as to who is right and wrong with so little information available as of yet.
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The "saviors" did not have permission from the Haitian government to extract those children.

Ergo, the wrongness of the "saviors" is not in doubt. The degree of wrongness bears investigating.
 
ptif219 said:
Answer this question.

How do the missionaries get paper work to take them to an orphanage when all the government buildings have been destroyed?
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There have been exceptions made in these dire circumstances, but that doesn't apply here from the news source I read. According to the news source I read the church thought they had all the right papers. Turns out they were told at the last minute at the border they did not. Something smells fishy here.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Given the fact that there are children in America needing adoption, why should anyone adopt from elsewhere?

Is it like picking up a puppy from the pet store instead of the pound, or what? Are they trophies to someone's wonderful caring giving nature? Do the adoptive parents think they're doing a special favor by rescuing these kids from their native land....when there are equally deserving kids in this country?
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Do you know much about adoption? Apparently not. :roll: Its easier to adopt from foreign countries and many times quicker. One of my former students who's wife could not bear children told me the lawyer fees alone in this country are $30,000 per child. He was trying to learn my trade to make money on the side to be able to afford to pay those fees.
 
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