Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 54

Thread: Haiti detains Americans taking kids across border

  1. #1
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,057

    Haiti detains Americans taking kids across border

    Haiti detains Americans taking kids across border - Yahoo! News

    Ten Americans were detained by Haitian police on Saturday as they tried to bus 33 children across the border into the Dominican Republic, allegedly without proper documents.
    The Baptist church members from Idaho called it a "Haitian Orphan Rescue Mission," meant to save abandoned children from the chaos following Haiti's earthquake. Their plan was to scoop up 100 kids and take them by bus to a rented hotel at a beach resort in the Dominican Republic, where they planned to establish an orphanage.
    Whether they realized it or not, these Americans the first known to be taken into custody since the Jan. 12 earthquake put themselves in the middle of a firestorm in Haiti, where government leaders have suspended adoptions amid fears that parentless or lost children are more vulnerable than ever to child trafficking.
    While I do not think these people intended any harm, they should have contacted the correct authorities before even trying something this crazy. What they did makes them look guilty. You do not take kids and try to sneak them out of a country. Hopefully it all turns well for these people. I think they had good intentions just went the wrong way about it.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #2
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,090

    Re: Haiti detains Americans taking kids across border

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Haiti detains Americans taking kids across border - Yahoo! News

    While I do not think these people intended any harm, they should have contacted the correct authorities before even trying something this crazy. What they did makes them look guilty. You do not take kids and try to sneak them out of a country. Hopefully it all turns well for these people. I think they had good intentions just went the wrong way about it.
    If they intended no harm, then why did they not at least get some sort of official documentation? Are they stupid or something?

    They did not have any documentation that they were orphans in the first place. That raises all sorts of alarms. How do they know they are orphans? Where did they get the kids? They also had no contacted the Haitian or US authorities at any level asking permission to do what they did. That in any book is kidnapping.

    Now the only kind of people that do this are either brain-dead or child sex traffickers... and regardless both should be punished for what they did.
    PeteEU

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Yop
    Last Seen
    06-27-16 @ 05:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    2,366

    Re: Haiti detains Americans taking kids across border

    It reminds me of the 2007 controversy about L'Arche de Zo in Darfur.

    On Tuesday, October 30, 2007, six members of the charity organization Zo's Ark were formally charged by the government of Chad for child abduction. Three journalists, seven Spanish flight crew members, and four Chadian and Sudanese nationals, including two Chadian officials, were also charged for complicity. Despite the group's claim that the children were orphans from Darfur who were being taken to be fostered in France, most of the children have been found to be Chadian, and to have at least one living parent or guardian.
    Last edited by paris; 01-31-10 at 11:08 AM.

  4. #4
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:11 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,153

    Re: Haiti detains Americans taking kids across border

    in the best of times, my understanding is the conducting of routine business in haiti officialdom is indirect and rife with corruption
    the accounts i have seen indicated that the pastors at the destroyed haitian orphanage and that of the dominican receiving orphanage had issued letters - in the possession of those moving the kids, the Americans from a baptist church, who are now incarcerated - which letters acknowlede the transfer of the chidren to be one consistent with the needs of the children and the agreement of both facilities
    i am suspicious that this is yet another instance of haitian officials holding up what needs to be done because they can ... and because the officials might potentially realize a bribe to discontinue their hold
    seems like a lot of displaced government resources when there are so many who actually need help in their country at this time
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  5. #5
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,057

    Re: Haiti detains Americans taking kids across border

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    If they intended no harm, then why did they not at least get some sort of official documentation? Are they stupid or something?

    They did not have any documentation that they were orphans in the first place. That raises all sorts of alarms. How do they know they are orphans? Where did they get the kids? They also had no contacted the Haitian or US authorities at any level asking permission to do what they did. That in any book is kidnapping.

    Now the only kind of people that do this are either brain-dead or child sex traffickers... and regardless both should be punished for what they did.
    I knew that you were going to reply to this so I've been thinking of how I'd reply to your posts for a while. I'll dissect your post and expose why it is nothing more than a reactionary and clearly anti-Christian view.

    The Haitian government is in complete shambles. That by itself would make any attempt to rescue these children an arduous process that would take years. First of all, there is no infrastructure in Haiti right now to deal with child adoptions. Secondly, the Latin American governments(this would include Brazil) are on a normal day, INCREDIBLY corrupt when dealing with child adoptions, the bureaucracy involved is quite extensive and people are often hustled for money. I know this because my wife and I have discussed adopting a child from Brazil. We have held off simply because we do not have the time to deal with international child adoption services at the moment.

    These children were handed over by a renowned pastor in Haiti. The church in Haiti is probably one of the few institutions which is not completely engulfed in corruption. Regardless of my disagreements with Christianity, it is undoubtable that they have in cases of complete chaos tried to help the most affected. Whether they have done all they could is another debate. But they have tried. The situation in Haiti and in 2006's tsunami would be examples of that. Baptist churches are a bit more radical in their ways of helping but they non the less have good intentions when they are seen helping children.

    Finally, these people aren't brain dead or child sex traffickers. They are people who saw themselves as being helpless, there is no real government to help these kids. And the government that does exist is so crippled and riddled in corruption that going through their channels is an exercise in futility.

    It is a matter of people having good intentions but going the wrong way about it. Your attack is unfounded and pretty biased.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 01-31-10 at 11:28 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    LIBTARDISTAN
    Last Seen
    05-01-10 @ 11:38 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,629

    Re: Haiti detains Americans taking kids across border

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I knew that you were going to reply to this so I've been thinking of how I'd reply to your posts for a while. I'll dissect your post and expose why it is nothing more than a reactionary and clearly anti-Christian view.

    The Haitian government is in complete shambles. That by itself would make any attempt to rescue these children an arduous process that would take years. First of all, there is no infrastructure in Haiti right now to deal with child adoptions. Secondly, the Latin American governments(this would include Brazil) are on a normal day, INCREDIBLY corrupt when dealing with child adoptions, the bureaucracy involved is quite extensive and people are often hustled for money. I know this because my wife and I have discussed adopting a child from Brazil. We have held off simply because we do not have the time to deal with international child adoption services at the moment.

    These children were handed over by a renowned pastor in Haiti. The church in Haiti is probably one of the few institutions which is not completely engulfed in corruption. Regardless of my disagreements with Christianity, it is undoubtable that they have in cases of complete chaos tried to help the most affected. Whether they have done all they could is another debate. But they have tried. The situation in Haiti and in 2006's tsunami would be examples of that. Baptist churches are a bit more radical in their ways of helping but they non the less have good intentions when they are seen helping children.

    Finally, these people aren't brain dead or child sex traffickers. They are people who saw themselves as being helpless, there is no real government to help these kids. And the government that does exist is so crippled and riddled in corruption that going through their channels is an exercise in futility.

    It is a matter of people having good intentions but going the wrong way about it. Your attack is unfounded and pretty biased.
    Well that's too bad but it does not give them the right to break the law......

  7. #7
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Haiti detains Americans taking kids across border

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    If they intended no harm, then why did they not at least get some sort of official documentation? Are they stupid or something?
    I have no idea what sort of "official documentation" is needed in Haiti, but in a bureaucratic, corrupt government in the midst of a humanitarian crisis...it probably isn't easy to get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU
    They did not have any documentation that they were orphans in the first place. That raises all sorts of alarms. How do they know they are orphans? Where did they get the kids? They also had no contacted the Haitian or US authorities at any level asking permission to do what they did. That in any book is kidnapping.
    Yes, but they were just trying to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU
    Now the only kind of people that do this are either brain-dead or child sex traffickers.
    These people were missionaries from some church with documented evidence that they were on a humanitarian mission. Do you REALLY believe they were child sex traffickers? And if not, then what's the point of punishing them just because they made a mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU
    and regardless both should be punished for what they did.
    Your compassion is marvelous. Punishing them will surely make people more hesitant to help in this or future humanitarian tragedies.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  8. #8
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,323

    Re: Haiti detains Americans taking kids across border

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    If they intended no harm, then why did they not at least get some sort of official documentation? Are they stupid or something?

    They did not have any documentation that they were orphans in the first place. That raises all sorts of alarms. How do they know they are orphans? Where did they get the kids? They also had no contacted the Haitian or US authorities at any level asking permission to do what they did. That in any book is kidnapping.

    Now the only kind of people that do this are either brain-dead or child sex traffickers... and regardless both should be punished for what they did.
    Why don't you list those alarms for us? Do you have children btw?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    LIBTARDISTAN
    Last Seen
    05-01-10 @ 11:38 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,629

    Re: Haiti detains Americans taking kids across border

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Why don't you list those alarms for us? Do you have children btw?
    How is that relavent?........

    If they broke the law, they should be punished....

    If I robbed a 7-11 because my kids were hungry, would you forgive me?.....

  10. #10
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,057

    Re: Haiti detains Americans taking kids across border

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    How is that relavent?........

    If they broke the law, they should be punished....

    If I robbed a 7-11 because my kids were hungry, would you forgive me?.....
    It is harder to see what these people did as criminal when you have kids. A lot harder. People without kids simply do not understand the difference. It is like losing a parent or friend to cancer or AIDS. You develop compassion for people who have it regardless what political lean you are in. If anything happened to my wife and I, I would only hope somebody would be this brazen rescuing my own kid. Doesn't matter if they are Christian, Atheist or Scientologist. It is a matter of compassion for other humans.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 01-31-10 at 12:59 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •