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Thread: Obama, Republicans Spar at House GOP Event

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    Re: Obama, Republicans Spar at House GOP Event

    theater is very nice, if that's what you want

    what's on the bill, since MA?

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    Re: Obama, Republicans Spar at House GOP Event

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    i have heard that fox news cut off the last 20 mins of this debate. Can anyone confirm or disprove this?
    I believe that is correct.
    Really?? That's pretty ****ty. That's the problem with getting political news on ideological stations, whether it is CNN, Fox, MSNBC, ABC or any other. Was it on CSPAN?

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    Re: Obama, Republicans Spar at House GOP Event

    The GOP took the high road and took Obama up on his offer. I think they scored by having a discussion with Obama. Politically they can say they presented him with alternative policies, and now have a right to block everything he does that is outside their suggestions.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama, Republicans Spar at House GOP Event

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Really?? That's pretty ****ty. That's the problem with getting political news on ideological stations, whether it is CNN, Fox, MSNBC, ABC or any other. Was it on CSPAN?
    Think Progress Fox Cuts Away From Obama-GOP Conversation In Order To Get A Head Start On Attacks: He Was ‘Lecturing’

    They explained it by saying that Obama was being too "combative" and "lecturing" and, since the people he was lecturing was the GOP, obviously Fox couldn't have that.

    Why anyone thinks this is "fair" and "balanced" is beyond me.

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    Re: Obama, Republicans Spar at House GOP Event

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Sometimes image is more important than substance. It's sad but true.
    When are those times? Where image is more imprtant than substance sometimes?

    Dems...having just lost 3 fairly informative elections. New Jersey was a surprise, Corzine had a lot of money, the wide margin Virginia sweep not as surprising although the no contest results should have been telling. Now, a week after the Scott heard round the world, you're suggesting image rather than substance is called for? Or maybe I'm wrong.

    It certainly explains the popularity of not only Palin but also Obama to a lesser extent.
    I don't think the Left fears Palin's image.

    I agree that Obama ignored certain questions, dodged others, and changed the question to what he wanted to answer instead of necessarily what was asked of him. ALL good politicians do that.
    Groucho, oh what a difference a year makes. My memories of past battles during Bush's tenure certainly included ignoring, dodging, changing, what he wanted to question or answer, I shant remember you breaking our yer "ALL good politicians do that" policy back then. But, maye I'm wrong.

    (Hell, all good lawyers do that.) Watch any good politician being interviewed on TV and see how often they really answer the question and how often they instead change the question to the talking points they want to make. This is true of both parties of course.
    I...uh....I......don't really know what to say. I want to set a scenario, Groucho and I having our usual banter one evening say...two years ago...and I break this paragraph out in defense of a speech by W. Groucho.....a sharp and quick witted member....not shy whatsoever...would have inflamed my argument...stewed it...and handed it back to me. Please Sir, my ribs cannot take it any longer.

    Is this good for democracy? Not really. But that's how the game is played these days. Political consultants on both sides know this.
    Say what you will for consultants, members of talk forums didn't know this. Not until Jan 20, 2009. How the 'game is played' is a brand new concept for some of us, it was obvious this argument absent during the W years. I don't remember you ever giving him or Republican policies the "game is played" benefit of the doubt. But, maybe I'm wrong.

    You can't fault Obama for being able to play the game better than the other guys.
    Play the game of image over substance, no, not even your favorite Palin is anywhere near his ability to play that game, Groucho. We're gonna cede you that point, we cannot fault Obama for mastering the game, being elected President on image...and making policy concerned for image. But, can we ask about you and his supporters? May we ask when it just may be time for you to change your tune and realize it's much better to have substance than image. To convince your President...our President...that with war and national security and voter anger and what not, substance may very well need to be taken off your sidelines and put back on your 'game' board?
    Last edited by Charles Martel; 01-30-10 at 11:55 AM.
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    Re: Obama, Republicans Spar at House GOP Event

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Think Progress Fox Cuts Away From Obama-GOP Conversation In Order To Get A Head Start On Attacks: He Was ‘Lecturing’

    They explained it by saying that Obama was being too "combative" and "lecturing" and, since the people he was lecturing was the GOP, obviously Fox couldn't have that.

    Why anyone thinks this is "fair" and "balanced" is beyond me.
    Did you even read what I wrote, the GOP won this thing.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama, Republicans Spar at House GOP Event

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Think Progress Fox Cuts Away From Obama-GOP Conversation In Order To Get A Head Start On Attacks: He Was ‘Lecturing’

    They explained it by saying that Obama was being too "combative" and "lecturing" and, since the people he was lecturing was the GOP, obviously Fox couldn't have that.
    They didn't say that was why they cut away.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Obama, Republicans Spar at House GOP Event

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    They didn't say that was why they cut away.
    Then why did they cut away?

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    Re: Obama, Republicans Spar at House GOP Event

    if fox cut it off, fox shouldn't have

    again, what's the great theater star gonna do?

    sing?

    dance?

    will the bobby soxers swoon?

    what's on the bill?

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    Re: Obama, Republicans Spar at House GOP Event

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    When are those times? Where image is more imprtant than substance sometimes?
    When it comes to getting votes. Seriously, if Palin looked and talked like Pelosi, do you think she'd have any support among conservatives?

    Please note: I made it clear that this is not a good thing. But it is how politics works these days.


    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Dems...having just lost 3 fairly informative elections. New Jersey was a surprise, Corzine had a lot of money, the wide margin Virginia sweep not as surprising although the no contest results should have been telling. Now, a week after the Scott heard round the world, you're suggesting image rather than substance is called for? Or maybe I'm wrong.
    No, I am saying that the public often cares more about image than substance. Polls go up when image improves. Once more, I didn't say this was good for democracy; in fact, I said the exact opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Groucho, oh what a difference a year makes. My memories of past battles during Bush's tenure certainly included ignoring, dodging, changing, what he wanted to question or answer, I shant remember you breaking our yer "ALL good politicians do that" policy back then. But, maye I'm wrong.
    Let me be clear: By "good" politicians I mean "politicians who win elections." I don't mean "politicians who are good for democracy." I am not in any way saying this is "good for our country."

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Say what you will for consultants, members of talk forums didn't know this. Not until Jan 20, 2009. How the 'game is played' is a brand new concept for some of us, it was obvious this argument absent during the W years. I don't remember you ever giving him or Republican policies the "game is played" benefit of the doubt. But, maybe I'm wrong.
    Yes, you're wrong. I too criticize Obama for dodging the issues and not giving us the change we want. He's just playing the game like all politicians do.

    My post was in response to criticisms here which basically boiled down to "He played the game better than we did." I am acknowledging that politics these days is PR as much as it is issues. (For that matter, it may have always been that way, just not as strong.) Once more, this is not a good thing, but it is reality. I was a campaign manager back in the 80s and I knew it then, and I'd emphasize it even more today.


    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Play the game of image over substance, no, not even your favorite Palin is anywhere near his ability to play that game, Groucho. We're gonna cede you that point, we cannot fault Obama for mastering the game, being elected President on image...and making policy concerned for image. But, can we ask about you and his supporters? May we ask when it just may be time for you to change your tune and realize it's much better to have substance than image. To convince your President...our President...that with war and national security and voter anger and what not, substance may very well need to be taken off your sidelines and put bak on your 'game' board here. Maybe even take the image nonsense piece off the board for awhile and start being concerned for we look rather than how you look.
    They ALL play the game, so in the long run you pick the one who you think might actually deliver what you want even despite the game. And then you cheer on your guy when he plays the game better than your opponents.

    Obama has a lot of substance to him, though. Unlike our last President, he has a command of the facts and is genuinely intelligent. I disagree with him on certain issues, am frustrated with him in other ways, but know that no candidate is perfect. He's still better for our country than McCain/Palin would have been.

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